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Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir

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  • #51
    Originally posted by daniels View Post
    No, he's not.

    From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

    Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?

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    • #52
      Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
      From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

      Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?
      Maybe he had no say in the decision and it is only logical to try to defend your employers decisions.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
        And gnome developers don't suffer from the NIH syndrome? Unity for example, was available before gnome shell.
        It is Canonical suffering from NCLAH. Unity was a clever way to CLA the desktop UI. At tomorrows Ubuntu it is easier to point out the few component NOT suffering from CLA than the other way around. Adding an android kernel/driver scheme and you have your self a complete disaster.

        It is quite scary.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
          C'mon admit it! The real men entered the room and the Wayland kids got scattered. Wayland kept the news headline for so many years and hasn't come up with anything usable for years. It might as well be called vaporware. Now when a real company with real money attacks the issue, instead of saying thank you, you scold them. Working with wayland? Why? They can't make up their minds and can't come up with shit. They haven't been for years. Tell me which one of you uses wayland huh? Nobody? Could it be that it doesn't work and all their beautiful design is shit?

          This is how linux has always been. Mediocre until a company that works for profit takes it and transforms it into something usable for the masses. Look at android and Ubuntu. Wayland never had a chance.
          Trolling about things you dont understand as per usual BO$$. So suddenly the companies that employee the wayland devs dont make a profit someone should tell Intels share holders that the wise and all knowing BO$$ says Intel no longer work for a profit. From what I understand Wayland is currently much more complete than Mir so your whole argument makes no sense what so ever.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
            C'mon admit it! The real men entered the room and the Wayland kids got scattered. Wayland kept the news headline for so many years and hasn't come up with anything usable for years. It might as well be called vaporware. Now when a real company with real money attacks the issue, instead of saying thank you, you scold them. Working with wayland? Why? They can't make up their minds and can't come up with shit. They haven't been for years. Tell me which one of you uses wayland huh? Nobody? Could it be that it doesn't work and all their beautiful design is shit?

            This is how linux has always been. Mediocre until a company that works for profit takes it and transforms it into something usable for the masses. Look at android and Ubuntu. Wayland never had a chance.
            You know what they say: it's better to stay quiet and be thought an idiot, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Maybe you should follow that advice...

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            • #56
              Originally posted by grotgrot View Post
              I didn't, but browsing through doesn't seem to show that many packages. It looks like Debian (and hence Ubuntu) has about double the number of packages as standard. Ubuntu's PPAs fill in any missing gaps very well. The Fedora package list is definitely more complete than when I've looked in the past.



              I was developing an Apache module, along with other software. It wouldn't work with no apparent explanation as to why. Eventually I'd find a clue, address it and try again. This would happen several times. I didn't want to disable selinux since then everyone I gave the module to would also have to do so, which is clearly the wrong thing. The issue wasn't the existence of selinux, but rather that diagnosing something you wanted to happen and didn't was extremely tedious.



              The installation docs are astonishingly bad (this page) especially compared to the Gentoo ones, or the convenience of a gui/auto-detection. Of course installs are so rare that it doesn't matter for most people. I am seeing the Arch wiki showing up in searches a lot more, like Gentoo used to (eg the arch page for btrfs is my 4th result for that term). Part of my problem is that the arch netboot kernel hangs in VirtualBox during boot most of the time.

              On Ubuntu I use these instructions to get rid of all the Ubuntu specific stuff and get a more genuine Gnome experience. If that approach doesn't work in 13.04 then I will definitely quite Ubuntu, almost certainly for Arch. The only remaining problem is why to recommend to new users since I still don't have a better answer than Ubuntu.
              That's not the full installation guide, it's a summary. The thorough in-depth guide is the Beginners' Guide, the other one is for people who have already installed Arch and just want a quick reference (as explained on the main page). There's no bug report for any issues with the install media in VirtualBox, so it must work fine (for you too, otherwise you would have reported it - right? :P).
              Last edited by strcat; 03-05-2013, 08:27 AM.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                Wanna bet that Mir will be released sooner than wayland? And that it will be incorporated in a linux distro (Ubuntu) faster than wayland? And that more users will use Mir than Wayland just because Ubuntu will use it and Ubuntu is the most popular distro? As I said before, Intel is just desperate since they lose everything to ARM in the smartphone space. That is why they finance wayland for now. They hope that it will make it easier for them to move into the mobile space and even make them sell a chip or two.
                wayland and weston are already released and at version 1.0.5.
                Also wayland and weston are in the official archlinux repos. They also enabled the gtk wayland backend in archlinux.

                They are still waiting for an official qt5-qtwayland release to also enable qt5 support on wayland.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by Sverro2 View Post
                  Now they are gonna change that, and you're still not happy
                  Why? My prediction has been proofed to be right
                  Originally posted by Pawlerson View Post
                  And even with X Ubuntu is way faster than OS X. Furthermore, Ubuntu is using Linux kernel rather some crap and it seems you're an only one who doesn't see Apple's OS X will be dead in the near future.
                  ... and Mac will move to use iOS, or start to use FreeBSD?
                  I can't see how this would happen.

                  Never forget workstation users. If someone did, he/she will be missing in the so-called "Post-PC" age.
                  Apple clearly knows about this while MS seems not.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    Wanna bet that Mir will be released sooner than wayland? And that it will be incorporated in a linux distro (Ubuntu) faster than wayland? And that more users will use Mir than Wayland just because Ubuntu will use it and Ubuntu is the most popular distro? As I said before, Intel is just desperate since they lose everything to ARM in the smartphone space. That is why they finance wayland for now. They hope that it will make it easier for them to move into the mobile space and even make them sell a chip or two.
                    A15 beats atom perfectly on power consumption.

                    Nice shoot ARM! Please continue like this and you can compete with Xeon in your next architecture.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                      Wanna bet that Mir will be released sooner than wayland? And that it will be incorporated in a linux distro (Ubuntu) faster than wayland? And that more users will use Mir than Wayland just because Ubuntu will use it and Ubuntu is the most popular distro? As I said before, Intel is just desperate since they lose everything to ARM in the smartphone space. That is why they finance wayland for now. They hope that it will make it easier for them to move into the mobile space and even make them sell a chip or two.
                      Why would intel want to move in to the mobile space when the markets they already dominate are way more profitable for them? Why compete with all of the 3 dozen ARM manufacturers for selling $5 mobile SoCs when they can sell $2000 server CPUs with pretty much no disruption? The competition on the ARM market is good for the end user, but it's not good for a chip maker that is used to running a de-facto monopoly.

                      Even on the desktop intel still has no real competition, apart from AMD which they can keep in line because AMD uses intel's arch. This will likely stay this way at least until ARMv8. (neat trivia: there are already 64-bit ARMv8 CPUs on the market, but only for servers and only one manufacturer makes them).

                      So, my dear Shuttleworth fanboi, intel has nothing to be desperate about (for now). And they sure as hell have more money and resources than Canonical.

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