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Wayland's Weston Gets A FreeRDP-Based Compositor

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  • phoronix
    started a topic Wayland's Weston Gets A FreeRDP-Based Compositor

    Wayland's Weston Gets A FreeRDP-Based Compositor

    Phoronix: Wayland's Weston Gets A FreeRDP-Based Compositor

    There's now a Wayland compositor that's based upon FreeRDP, the open-source implementation of Microsoft's Remote Desktop Protocol...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMxNjE

  • Marek Romanowicz
    replied
    RDP backend

    Has anyone actually managed to connect to wayland/weston via RDP protocol? I've enabled rdp-backend and it seems to be working but when it starts running FreeRDP complains about Address being already in use and it segfaults having negotiated a connection to an external client. Also, when I run weston with rdp-backend enabled then desktop-shell does not seem to be launching at all.

    I'm sorry but I am a newbie to wayland/weston devepment and may confuse a few terms.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ericg
    replied
    Originally posted by renox View Post
    I think that we agree totally on how XWayland works, I was just pointing out that some of your sentences were a bit ambiguous, but maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker..
    Lol okay then

    Leave a comment:


  • runeks
    replied
    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
    Now, you brought up the X backend. The X backend, unless im mistaken, is XWayland. XWayland is so that if you have an application that was specifically written for X (Not done in a modern version of GTK or Qt) that they can still run under Wayland. Wayland will spawn a special X server that is the exact size of their window. X thinks its in charge but when it goes to display the contents of the screen, its actually pushing them to a Wayland buffer and then Wayland handles where, when, and how to display the contents.
    I think what renox was trying to clarify is that the X11 backend in Weston (x11-backend.so) is not XWayland, it's the backend that allows Weston to run inside an X environment. So, if you run Weston inside a running X environment, you get a window that pop up with Weston running inside it. This weston communicates with the running X server and sends its buffer updates to X. This is useful for running Weston when your hardware doesn't support the DRM backend.

    XWayland is not a backend per se, ie. you don't run Weston "on" this backend. Instead, as you say, this module listens for applications launched in Weston that try to connect to an X server, and if they do (if it's an old program written specifically for X), then Weston launches an X server, and takes the buffer that the application sends to this spawned X server and displays it as any other application running under Weston.

    Looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/lvUbYIb.png

    Here you have Google Chrome, gedit, gnome-control-center, gnome-font-viewer, smuxi, synaptic and gnome-terminal running as XWayland clients inside Weston.

    Leave a comment:


  • renox
    replied
    I think that we agree totally on how XWayland works, I was just pointing out that some of your sentences were a bit ambiguous, but maybe it's because I'm not a native English speaker..

    Leave a comment:


  • Ericg
    replied
    Originally posted by renox View Post
    You wrote "Now, you brought up the X backend. The X backend, unless im mistaken, is XWayland" and "XWayland has to be merged into the X server to listen for Wayland connections."

    but wikipedia says "xwayland[37] was written to enable running X11 applications through an X server, optionally rootless, running as a Wayland client" which means that XWayland is not listening to "Wayland connection"! It is listening for X client connections and then sending the buffer resulting of their (X) commands to Weston as a Wayland client.
    from the link:
    Wayland is a complete window system in itself, but even so, if we're migrating away from X, it makes sense to have a good backwards compatibility story. With a few changes, the Xorg server can be modified to use wayland input devices for input and forward either the root window or individual top-level windows as wayland surfaces. The server still runs the same 2D driver with the same acceleration code as it does when it runs natively. The main difference is that wayland handles presentation of the windows instead of KMS.
    Xwayland adds support into the X server to push the images to a wayland buffer, instead of the screen. You dont have to modify any clients to get this, but you do have to modify the X server. Its not seamless for the X server, it does actually know that its not in TOTAL control anymore because theres a special wayland code path (it gets wayland input devices, see above)

    Quite honestly im not even sure what we're debating at this point... See: https://vignatti.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/x-on-wayland/

    The X server, with the Wayland backend on it (xwayland), keeps listening Weston via a special Wayland protocol interface. Weston binds such interface and announces back the socket that X clients will be connecting to (xserver_send_listen_socket event) and the first X client that was just connected (xserver_send_client event).

    Leave a comment:


  • renox
    replied
    You wrote "Now, you brought up the X backend. The X backend, unless im mistaken, is XWayland" and "XWayland has to be merged into the X server to listen for Wayland connections."

    but wikipedia says "xwayland[37] was written to enable running X11 applications through an X server, optionally rootless, running as a Wayland client" which means that XWayland is not listening to "Wayland connection"! It is listening for X client connections and then sending the buffer resulting of their (X) commands to Weston as a Wayland client.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ericg
    replied
    Originally posted by renox View Post
    Your clarifications were nice but this part is incorrect I think: with Wayland and X, you can have
    - X on Wayland: an X client which talks with a special X server (XWayland) which itself will use Weston as its backend and then Weston will send the data to its own backend.
    - "Wayland" on X: Weston has an X backend, which means that instead of discussing directly with the hardware, Weston can send its buffers to an X server which will talk with the hardware.
    This was mostly useful when developping Weston..

    Also your clarifications about Wayland was a bit incorrect, Wayland is:
    - the name of the project
    - the name of a protocol
    - the name of a library which implement this protocol.
    Overloading is bad for communication, so I prefer to talk about the Wayland Foo (Foo=project, developers, protocol, library) than Wayland alone.
    Yes Wayland is the protocol, Wayland is the project and libwayland is the library that implements the protocol, but the post was mainly just about the differenc between Wayland and Weston since thats what was being discussed.

    X clients under Wayland is XWayland (see: http://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html) XWayland has to be merged into the X server to listen for Wayland connections.

    I'm sure there was a Wayland-clients-under-X way but I have yet to see a link describing it.

    Leave a comment:


  • renox
    replied
    Originally posted by Ericg View Post
    [cut]Now, you brought up the X backend. The X backend, unless im mistaken, is XWayland. XWayland is so that if you have an application that was specifically written for X (Not done in a modern version of GTK or Qt) that they can still run under Wayland. Wayland will spawn a special X server that is the exact size of their window. X thinks its in charge but when it goes to display the contents of the screen, its actually pushing them to a Wayland buffer and then Wayland handles where, when, and how to display the contents.
    Your clarifications were nice but this part is incorrect I think: with Wayland and X, you can have
    - X on Wayland: an X client which talks with a special X server (XWayland) which itself will use Weston as its backend and then Weston will send the data to its own backend.
    - "Wayland" on X: Weston has an X backend, which means that instead of discussing directly with the hardware, Weston can send its buffers to an X server which will talk with the hardware.
    This was mostly useful when developping Weston..

    Also your clarifications about Wayland was a bit incorrect, Wayland is:
    - the name of the project
    - the name of a protocol
    - the name of a library which implement this protocol.
    Overloading is bad for communication, so I prefer to talk about the Wayland Foo (Foo=project, developers, protocol, library) than Wayland alone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ericg
    replied
    Originally posted by Rexilion View Post
    Ok, lemme get this right...

    So, something like: a compositor (e.g. Weston) depending on a library (e.g. librender). This librender depends on libfreerdp, libvnc, libnx or whatever. So whatever compositor links against librender get's the rest for free. Would be nice.

    This is getting 'interesting'. X was split into Wayland and Weston. Okay, so one could say that Wayland is purely a middelman that connects toolkits to your screen. But to manage your screen you use a compositor that responds on user input. I follow on that. Now, this compositor get's all sorts of plugins. BUT, the functionality those plugins provide could also be used by (supposedly) other (stacked of course) compositors. So you have 2 ways of implementing the same functionality. Just one is compositor specific and the other one is not. However, the compositor specific method could be build into a library so that all the compositors that link to it recieve that same functionality.

    Please understand that I don't quite follow the general idea anymore...
    Lemme see if I can't clear this up Rexilion, because this is getting WAY off track.

    1) A librender would be a good idea, assuming its technologically feasible. I put that disclaimer inl because I don't know the design spec for Wayland compositors, and therefore maybe it wouldnt actually work. But assuming it could work, thatd probably be a good idea.

    2) X, Wayland, and Weston are three VERY different things. X was not split into anything. X, was a protocol from the 1980s. Wayland is a new protocol started I think 2years ago, and Weston is the reference/example compositor for Wayland.

    X and Wayland are JUST protocols, they don't actually handle screen management (maybe X did or can but it doesnt anymore, so peanut gallery: shush). To handle window management you need a separate application that speaks the X / Wayland (or both) protocol. For X we have like...God only knows. There's metacity, mutter, Kwin, the *boxes, the *poisons, E17, and tons of others.

    For Wayland we have... Weston, which is the EXAMPLE compositor that the Wayland guys themselves wrote to show people how things work and what you should/shouldnt do when youre writing your own compositor. Gnome Shell and Kwin (KDE) Are in the process of being ported over to Wayland, they are doing it in such a way that they will detect at runtime whether they are being run on X or Wayland, and choose the appropriate codepath.

    Now, as far as the backends. Typically you want to run Wayland on pure hardware. Not always though. Thats when the backends come into place: people have written a DRM backend (thats the hardware one) theyve written a Pixman one (thats software rendering on the cpu, bad idea for the most part. But if your graphics card is crap / broken drivers, it'll get the job done. So its a good backup to have.) They've now written an RDP one.

    The idea of the backends is its different ways the compositor (not the protocol) can be run. So if you have a FreeRDP-capable compositor on a server, and you connect via a FreeRDP client to that server. The compositor will see the incoming connection, recognize it as FreeRDP, and give you a connection. Maybe it will be the current session, maybe it will be a new session (probably able to choose between those two) and a few seconds later the desktop will appear on the computer you're connecting from.

    The protocol itself does not care about backends, backends are for the compositor. All the protocol cares about is getting pictures from A to B, where B is a screen.

    Now, you brought up the X backend. The X backend, unless im mistaken, is XWayland. XWayland is so that if you have an application that was specifically written for X (Not done in a modern version of GTK or Qt) that they can still run under Wayland. Wayland will spawn a special X server that is the exact size of their window. X thinks its in charge but when it goes to display the contents of the screen, its actually pushing them to a Wayland buffer and then Wayland handles where, when, and how to display the contents.

    Dear god do I hope that clears things up because your last post was a complete mess >.< (not your fault, everyone elses)

    Leave a comment:

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