Moving On From An X.Org World To Wayland

[newwen]

How does Wayland handle multiple screens in "clone mode" with different subpixel geometries?

If the client is responsible for antialising and subpixel rendering or some kind of transfor, if you have different kind of monitors connected to your graphics card or some kind of transformation on one of them, the image will be fucked up for one of them.

Rendering performed by clients should be abstracted from output devices (the way postscript is for printers) and actual rendering should happen on the server.

There's a reason X11 is complex, and I'm growing less convinced that Wayland is a good solution for Linux graphics.

[varikonniemi]

Finally a video that articulates my understanding about the x/wayland situation. Sometimes while reading discussion here at phoronix i start to doubt myself since so many write with such certainty utter crap.

Good to see Wayland development is on good tracks, and the people designing it semm to really know what they are doing.

[daniels]

Smart damage + compression?

Beware of this patent from Microsoft. They've been very active patenting everyting related to RDP.
http://www.google.es/patents/US82093...G4Dg#v=onepage

Aside from the fact that patents cover everything you'd ever possibly think of, theirs covers transmitting rendering commands over the wire and then having them rasterised separately. That isn't us.

[newwen]

You can see for yourself: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~krh/weston/log/?h=remote

It's like VNC in that we send the final composed images, rather than a series of rendering commands (gradient here, text here, etc). This usually ends up being cheaper to transfer over the wire, as is true for most things today - even 3D scenes, which were once totally remotable since it was just a series of (not very many) polygons. But unlike VNC, it does smart damage and compression.

Smart damage + compression?

Beware of this patent from Microsoft. They've been very active patenting everyting related to RDP.

http://www.google.es/patents/US8209372?printsec=claims&hl=es&dq=Microsoft+remoting+bitmap&ei=2kMUUZDcG8Wt0QWTiYG4Dg#v=onepage

[89c51]

You can see for yourself: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~krh/weston/log/?h=remote

No coding skills to understand something like that.

It's like VNC in that we send the final composed images, rather than a series of rendering commands (gradient here, text here, etc). This usually ends up being cheaper to transfer over the wire, as is true for most things today - even 3D scenes, which were once totally remotable since it was just a series of (not very many) polygons. But unlike VNC, it does smart damage and compression.

And thanks for the answer.

[daniels]

Daniel on the video said that the network solution they are testing is something similar to VNC right? Weren't they targeting something more advanced??

You can see for yourself: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~krh/weston/log/?h=remote

It's like VNC in that we send the final composed images, rather than a series of rendering commands (gradient here, text here, etc). This usually ends up being cheaper to transfer over the wire, as is true for most things today - even 3D scenes, which were once totally remotable since it was just a series of (not very many) polygons. But unlike VNC, it does smart damage and compression.

[89c51]

Daniel on the video said that the network solution they are testing is something similar to VNC right? Weren't they targeting something more advanced??

[phred14]

Ok, I digged in a bit and found out that you can download the video using public-ftp (bypassing the faulty http-handling) with this URL, shouldn't even wget work for you:

ftp://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux....land_and_X.mp4

Probably more likely would be for X to become a virtual, and virtual/X to be satisfied by either x11-base/xorg-x11 or dev-libs/wayland. That would be less disruptive to the rest of the portage tree. Actually I doubt that the second option for the virtual would really be dev-libs/wayland - rather something else built on top of wayland. Right now "emerge -ptv weston" finds no package, nor anything truly similar, though "emerge wayland" does.

[newwen]

Nice watch, can't wait till Wayland is more supported in the Linux world. I won't be able to use it till AMD or NVidia ports their drivers to it (or Intel suddenly starts making faster graphics chips), so I really hope those companies are looking into supporting it soon.

It shouldn't be too much work for Nvidia and AMD to port their drivers to support wayland because all the functionality is already there. It's just a matter of changing apis and spliting code into components to support EGL, GLES, DRM and KMS. DRM and KMS modules might be problematic with the binary blobs, though , but they already do it for Android, as far as I know. The GPL remains a concern here, because DRM and KMS propietary modules could be seen as a derivative work of the Linux kernel, whereas the current binary blobs are not (linux support is a derivative work of propietary code not originaly written for Linux)

[shmerl]

Video not playable in Firefox:

http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.conf.au/2013/mp4/The_real_story_behind_Wayland_and_X.mp4

Please add this video to the video tag on the page:

http://mirror.linux.org.au/linux.conf.au/2013/ogv/The_real_story_behind_Wayland_and_X.ogv