Wayland 1.0 Stable Release Is Imminent

[Rigaldo]

Yeah so it brings nothing new for the user, only for devs, and the first users who will try it will get burned because it's buggy and incomplete and they'll tell everybody else that it sucks so that everybody else shouldn't try it and Wayland will wither away and die a well deserved death because it brings nothing to the table. All hail Xorg!!! See this is why Xorg will remain king. It already works well enough for the users. Users don't care about developers so they have no reason to switch!

Totally agree, tear free video, flicker free and tear free desktop among various other things are totally irrelevant for users, only for developers .. (<-- sarcasm/irony)

If you indeed took the time to learn more about Wayland and still believe this .. Whatever ..
Yes likely Wayland, like everything new will have some bugs. That's why I can't wait for it to come out so we can get rid of them faster
And do you know what X was originally designed for? You certainly want something not designed for GUIs to handle your 3d graphics, applications, desktop and everything related?
From my understanding X has by default architectural flaws when you take into account what it is used for now(not the fault of X devs, it was just not started for what it ended up being, or ended up being for some). Fixing various issues it has would bring us "a Wayland" anyways .. And at least some of the guys working on Wayland have some experience in X so I believe we can trust them
If I am wrong in any of the above, someone please correct me.

So I guess in the end, for some people any kind o change is awful .. With that attitude we should still have no screens at all and insert commands in computers using cards that have holes on them to indicate ones and zeros. Or better yet, have to rearrange transistors to get our desired "application".

[Ancurio]

Fuck off, dumb asshole.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[Ancurio]

Totally agree, tear free video, flicker free and tear free desktop among various other things are totally irrelevant for users, only for developers .. (<-- sarcasm/irony)

If you indeed took the time to learn more about Wayland and still believe this .. Whatever ..
Yes likely Wayland, like everything new will have some bugs. That's why I can't wait for it to come out so we can get rid of them faster
And do you know what X was originally designed for? You certainly want something not designed for GUIs to handle your 3d graphics, applications, desktop and everything related?
From my understanding X has by default architectural flaws when you take into account what it is used for now(not the fault of X devs, it was just not started for what it ended up being, or ended up being for some). Fixing various issues it has would bring us "a Wayland" anyways .. And at least some of the guys working on Wayland have some experience in X so I believe we can trust them
If I am wrong in any of the above, someone please correct me.

So I guess in the end, for some people any kind o change is awful .. With that attitude we should still have no screens at all and insert commands in computers using cards that have holes on them to indicate ones and zeros. Or better yet, have to rearrange transistors to get our desired "application".

You must be new here. He's a well known negativity-troll.

[Rigaldo]

You must be new here. He's a well known negativity-troll.

Ok, I'll keep it in mind, thanks for the heads up.

[curaga]

I have flicker at boot up, tearing when watching videos, lag with animations, breakage when resizing windows, bad performance under compositing... X.org doesn't work.

Half of those things aren't X's faults. It's quite unfair to blame it for problems in something else.

[Ancurio]

The thing is if wayland is better for developers then that means that people creating applications will have easier time which might translate to better applications for users. So in the end wayland might be better for users. But, and this is a recurring problem in linux, it will be released in an unfinished state and early users will say it sucks and then no one will test future (better) versions. This is why wayland will die. If they want any kind of success then they must keep it out of the public's eye for the next 3-4 years, test it thouroughly, and then switch to wayland without causing absolutely any change in the user workflow. So since it doesn't have any obvious advantages to the user in it's initial state, users won't put up with the bugs that it will surely have and will leave to go back to Xorg. So it won't get thouroughly tested and it will never have a large userbase. This is the big problem with your beloved wayland. No one will want to use it.

But then of course probably Ubuntu will have us dragged kicking and screaming to use it as we had unnecessary changes forced upon us before.

Yeah, Wayland will die like that. Just like KDE4 did.

[Teho]

Half of those things aren't X's faults. It's quite unfair to blame it for problems in something else.

All of them are either party or completely due to deficienies in X.org; not that I know much about the technical details. With Wayland it's possible to sync animation perfectly to the monitor refresh rate leading to fluent animation. Compositing under Wayland causes almost no overhead unlike X.org where it's very noticeable. Tearing and resizing are something that are solved due to its architecture. Flickering can be solved by starting small system compositor very early in the boot; X.org flickers even after it's loaded in the boot process.

it will be released in an unfinished state and early users will say it sucks and then no one will test future (better) versions.

Could you list some projects like that? PulseAudio probably got it harder than anything but it's doing extremely fine. Wayland is one of the most awaited projects in open source landscape. I haven't heard anyone whine more about it than you and I doubt that will change even when it's going to be put in use.

[bridgman]

Maybe my recollection of the timeline is wrong, but here's what I remember...

1. Many complaints about X being too big, too old, trying to do too much, forcing a wire protocol on everyone when 99% of the users were running apps only on a local PC. Wistful thinking about a nice, lightweight display environment like the one on OSX with an efficient compositor, a window manager, and not much else.

2. Kristian started working on Wayland while at Red Hat. Per Wikipedia :

His stated goal was a system in which "every frame is perfect, by which I mean that applications will be able to control the rendering enough that we'll never see tearing, lag, redrawing or flicker.

Many complaints about "why do we need something new" and "this is just a Red Hat project"

3. Kristian moves to Intel. Work continues on Wayland and gathers momentum. Many complaints about "why do we need something new" and "this is just an Intel project".

It's possible that the people complaining in (1) are a different set from the people complaining in (2) and (3), of course.

[Rigaldo]

People will never be happy .. Even if Wayland has 0 bugs. People can't survive on pure happiness anyway, they'll find something to be displeased about .. Or kill themselves .. :|

Yeah, Wayland will die like that. Just like KDE4 did.

Yeah, many more examples of projects dying that way .. Pulseaudio, Systemd, Gnome 3, Unity/Compiz.. Probably more.

[uid313]

Buggy drivers still crash the system

I try run Nvidia with nouveau drivers and my system crashes.

Buggy drivers make the whole operating system crash, it sucks!
On Windows, if a device driver crash, it just restarts it and keeps on working like normal.

So something must be shit. I don't know if its Linux, DRI, DRM, Nouveau, Weston, or Xorg but something sucks.