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Binary Driver Blobs Aren't Yet Ready For Wayland

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  • phoronix
    started a topic Binary Driver Blobs Aren't Yet Ready For Wayland

    Binary Driver Blobs Aren't Yet Ready For Wayland

    Phoronix: Binary Driver Blobs Aren't Yet Ready For Wayland

    Aside from the Wayland/Weston 0.95 announcement, also being discussed in recent days on the Wayland development list has been support supporting the AMD Catalyst and NVIDIA Linux binary graphics drivers under Wayland...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTE0NjI

  • varikonniemi
    replied
    I am pretty sure the kernel/wayland devs are so proud folks that they will make the binary drivers adapt to wayland, not the other way around.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnc
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    Also "caved under pressure" seems a bit dramatic -- from reading all the blogs it seems that :

    - the initial approach was reasonable and professional,
    - they discussed a bunch of options including collaboration,
    - in the end they decided not to collaborate but the patent holder agreed to exempt open source projects

    That seems like a best-case scenario -- something which should be appreciated and held up as a good example for others to follow.

    Just a thought...
    But Michael never over-dramatizes and exaggerates...

    Leave a comment:


  • bridgman
    replied
    Also "caved under pressure" seems a bit dramatic -- from reading all the blogs it seems that :

    - the initial approach was reasonable and professional,
    - they discussed a bunch of options including collaboration,
    - in the end they decided not to collaborate but the patent holder agreed to exempt open source projects

    That seems like a best-case scenario -- something which should be appreciated and held up as a good example for others to follow.

    Just a thought...

    Leave a comment:


  • 1c3d0g
    replied
    Please RTFA, asdx.
    The good news is that it looks like the ex-NVIDIA engineer has caved under pressure and will grant patent immunity to open-source projects. From Doug's blog, "I have heard you and I am granting the open source community immunity from this patent."
    This isn't even about NVIDIA, but about one of their EX-employees having a patent on his name. Anyways, your bitching is unnecessary as it appears the patent will be usable by the open source community.

    Leave a comment:


  • daniels
    replied
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    And I already see how Wayland is going to go:

    "We didn't bother to even consider the existence of binary drivers."

    And sure enough, absolutely nothing will work outside of FOSS-land. People will be forced to engage in all kinds of Wayland-on-X hackery to get basic functionality and the masses will avoid Linux like the plague... And where does that put companies like Valve? Questioning their priorities and commitments, probably.
    Absolute nonsense.

    The Wayland GL integration was in fact designed to make it as easy as possible. There's nothing Mesa-specific about it, and NVIDIA could do it quite easily today with not very much work. Certainly it would be infinitely smaller than their X driver, which is huge and spectacularly complex. They just don't want to at the moment, because the customers they care about (thousands of workstations) aren't interested right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • daniels
    replied
    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
    After all, nvidia has a driver that works on both Windows' protocol and X (on Linux, BSD and Solaris, no less) with minimum adaptations already.
    'Minimum adaptations' is both ridiculous and wrong. Their X11 driver is crazy complex and deeply X-specific.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gusar
    replied
    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
    So basically why is it so hard to make the blobs run with wayland?
    Who said it is? As far as I know, Wayland doesn't care which modesetting and gl implementation is used. Now Weston may be tied to KMS and DRI2, but Weston is just a reference compositor. If it can't be easily adjusted for the blobs, there will be other compositors that can. Or maybe even Weston can be easily adapted, it's just that no one has done it because there hasn't yet been a reason to do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • brent
    replied
    Yes, specifically the GT 240 DDR5 has this problem. It does not work at all with nouveau. The problem has been known since January 2011 at least, but nobody bothered to actually look into it, the GPU isn't even blacklisted in nouveau. That means every Linux (every somewhat recent Live CD or whatever) locks up on boot, if you have this GPU. The only output I ever got from nouveau developers was that it "should work".

    As long as stuff like this is common (and it is!), the open source drivers cannot be taken seriously, IMO.
    Last edited by brent; 07-26-2012, 05:05 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tstrunk
    replied
    I'd like to steer the thread a bit into talking about Android again (sorry for not quoting, but there were so many flames in the middle, that I didn't want to read through all of them again).
    The main statement was: "The binary blobs are good for the Android ecosystem, because otherwise there would be less choice."

    But look where that has left us? Many people cannot upgrade their OS even after a jailbreak with Cyanogenmod, because the old binary drivers are simply incompatible with the newer APIs.
    In this case I'm speaking from experience not with gpu binary drivers, but for example, my camera drivers. They are not open; hence newer Android versions will never support my camera. Similar things happened for closed source network drivers on OpenWRT. There for many routers 2.4 kernel configurations are still the way to go, because otherwise no wireless. The Intel ATOMs with the PowerVR chipset (Poulsbo?) are another example, where insufficient binary support basically leaves you unsupported on Linux.

    Stable APIs are good for developing drivers, but they do confine the further development. With open drivers, the person doing the API change can also fix the drivers.
    When binary support ends, every API change will turn working hardware into a hunk of non-updatable metal.

    Leave a comment:

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