NVIDIA Says It Has No Plans To Support Wayland

[deanjo]

I don't believe it matters much. NVIDIA is on its way down as a gpu company. For years it produces mediocre cards.

Really? That's why the G92 whooped anything ATI brought out for years? Or how the GTX 2xx series whooped the AT 4xxx series? Not to mention the years before that with the exception of the GF5 series?

They consume more power, produce more heat

Granted they do but under heavy load conditions. The GF104 holds it's own.

are behind in terms of features like D3D

But yet they seem to have a product ready when software actually starts using new DX versions.

(and OpenGL) hardware support most of the time,

Once ATI beat them by two days

they use shady tactics with rebranding hardware

As does AMD and Intel

, suspicious reviews and "leaks"

Ditto there for ATI

, "The way it's meant to be paid" program

Same as AMD's Gaming Evolved program

http://www.ngohq.com/news/17471-amd-counters-twimtbp-with-gaming-evolved-program.html

In the past 3 years, i have watched many NVIDIA gpus die, and not even one ATI gpu. It may be just anecdotal, but i don't believe in coincidences.

Yet the local shops here find a higher rate of failed AMD's starting with the 4xxx series.

Plus, while Catalyst is crap, AMD is doing the right thing(tm) in supporting an opensource alternative, unlike NVIDIA.

Most people prefer a full featured functional driver over one that is done in the sake of "semi-freeness"

So, i believe that NVIDIA's lack of support shouldn't be a concern for Linux users with a brain. By the time Wayland in Ubuntu becomes default, AMD opensource drivers should be of good quality. And there always is Intel around too, with a decent gpu in Sandybridge.

Uhhuh, despite being out for a while now AMD's opensource drivers are still a long long long ways off performing even close to their blob counterparts.

There is really no reason for a Linux user(except a few niches) to use dedicated gpus anymore. Seriously, if you have a need for graphically intensive gaming, use Windows. Crippling yourselves with Wine is stupidity.

On die gpus should cover most Linux users needs and i believe Opensource support should be good enough when the time comes.

I suppose if you consider "niches" to be anything beyond basic desktop functionality. In that case why even bother switching from whatever OS they presently have.

PS: Those talking about NVIDIA support coming when Wayland is to be adopted, do not know what they are talking about. This is not a simple feature we are talking about. There will need to be major architectural shifts in the driver, in order to support KMS. If a proprietary driver is to be ready for it, it should begin this process *NOW*.

We know exactly what we are talking about. Big radical changes is nothing new and has never phased nvidia in the past and there is no reason to believe that IF wayland ever becomes mature enough that they won't be ready. The challenge of shifting from a general purpose GPU to an architecture that can be used for computing tasks was perhaps an even larger task for them to handle but they got there just fine.

[smitty3268]

Well oss drivers do not provide any video accelleration with the partital exception of intel. In your theory all cpus are fast enough to decode it fine and run flash hd videos without a problem. That's just not the case in reality. Of course a 3 ghz dual or faster cpu can do that usually, just not every pc sold is that fast. Especially netbooks/nettops have got serious problems with that.

XvMC support is supposedly mostly working for the r600+ cards. Hopefully by next summer they'll have some basic support for h264. Even if it only cuts cpu use by 25% that may be enough to make video watchable on current hardware. Then you're just losing out on power consumption versus the proprietary drivers.

[TemplarGR]

Well oss drivers do not provide any video accelleration with the partital exception of intel. In your theory all cpus are fast enough to decode it fine and run flash hd videos without a problem. That's just not the case in reality. Of course a 3 ghz dual or faster cpu can do that usually, just not every pc sold is that fast. Especially netbooks/nettops have got serious problems with that.

1) Video acceleration will come to opensource drivers eventually

2) Yes, a modern cpu is more than enough for HD video. I am watching 1080p video all the time, and my CPU is a Core 2 Q6600 bought 3 years ago... So enough with the fairy tales please. Let's talk like real IT pros here... It is simply not possible someone owns a modern gpu capable of HD video accelaration, yet it owns a low end cpu incapable of even 720p. My atom can play 720p occasionaly...

3) HD Flash video? Why would you need this? I don't know where you live, but HD Flash video is only a niche at the moment, mainly because of bandwidth constraints. I use a 24mbps adsl line and even i face problems with flash. Also, when opensource flash implementations like lightspark mature, they will be able to leverage the opensource video acceleration, unlike the proprietary flash.

[TemplarGR]

Really? That's why the G92 whooped anything ATI brought out for years? Or how the GTX 2xx series whooped the AT 4xxx series? Not to mention the years before that with the exception of the GF5 series?

You must have been using Linux for the duration of this era, and not following hardware review sites, because the reality vastly differs from that... I have gamed in many configurations personaly, and ATI won hands down when compared to similar NVIDIA offerings.

But yet they seem to have a product ready when software actually starts using new DX versions.

Reality check: Game developers want marketshare for a feature to reach critical mass before supporting it. If NVIDIA due to lack of engineering power can't support it on time, they will hold back, sometimes they will be even bribed (Assasin Creed anyone?) to hold back support... Another reason is that most games today are console ports, so their level is at Dx9 anyway...

As does AMD and Intel

Ditto there for ATI

Not to this degree.

Same as AMD's Gaming Evolved program

You must be joking... Let's see if AMD pays game devs to cut features from the competition, a la Batman Arkham Asylum, then we can compare them...

Yet the local shops here find a higher rate of failed AMD's starting with the 4xxx series.

You may say the truth here. But, for the last 3 years i have bought personaly over 10 gpus for relatives and friends, and i have been asked to support a number of Windows pcs that i didn't pick myself(the bad side of being knowledgeble with computers, most people ask you for help everytime).

And from my findings, NVIDIA's gpus are bad. I have witnessed 4 NVIDIA's gpus die, 3 of them before completing their second year. None was overclocked. The only problem i ever faced on Ati's gpus, was with the game trackmania united, it just crashed on Ati 3850 repeatedly(and frustrated me because i couldn't explain to them that their computer is fine, the damn game is designed for NVIDIA cards...). My own HD3870, have served me well for 3 years, i even played Crysis on 1680x1050 on v.high(i know sometimes i got lags but it was playable).

Most people prefer a full featured functional driver over one that is done in the sake of "semi-freeness"

I could scientifically prove you are trolling, based on this comment. For example one could wonder, if you are not interested in opensource, why use Linux/GNU in the first place?

Another question could be, if you are not interested in Linux because of licencing, but because of its features, what are those features? Gaming? OpenCL maybe or CUDA?Video Accelaration?Photoshop?3d design? What?

People who need to buy a discreet commercial gpu, 99% of the time want to game with it(in the time of decent integrated gpus). If they were professionals, they would buy workstation gpus, not consumer, unless they were really poor.

So, people that game wouldn't use Linux anyway, unless they were masochists.

One should never forget a golden rule: Always try to think outside the box, just don't forget what the box is for. You are arguing about a binary driver for Linux while forgeting what is Linux for...

Uhhuh, despite being out for a while now AMD's opensource drivers are still a long long long ways off performing even close to their blob counterparts.

Performance will improve rapidly from now own i believe. It took much time to build their basic foundation, but now end user improvements should be more noticable.

I suppose if you consider "niches" to be anything beyond basic desktop functionality. In that case why even bother switching from whatever OS they presently have.

Modern integrated gpus should be able to handle anything opensource thrown at them. Compositing effects, opensource games etc.

Only Linux workstation professionals really need discreet gpus.

We know exactly what we are talking about. Big radical changes is nothing new and has never phased nvidia in the past and there is no reason to believe that IF wayland ever becomes mature enough that they won't be ready. The challenge of shifting from a general purpose GPU to an architecture that can be used for computing tasks was perhaps an even larger task for them to handle but they got there just fine.

No you don't. This is not simply a radical change. It is a change that will require:

1) Either changing entirely the nvidia blob structure to sit on top of Nouveau, or replacing entirely Nouveau's userland with its own. This will certainly hurt performance AND features.

2) Providing proprietary KMS fucntionality inside the Linux kernel. This has to be opensource, to prevent problems, or this will require replacing the memory manager with NVIDIA's, which will make Catalyst look like a dream come true...

This is not something as simple as CUDA, especially since the Linux blob just "borrowed" it from the Windows version(people give CUDA much more credit than it deserves, it is not exotic, just a compiler for a different architecture). This will require major Linux-centered work.

Seriously, do you own NVIDIA stock? If you do not, and are interested in knowing thyself, visit this:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Fanboy

[VinzC]

It is interesting how "We have no plans to support Wayland." is translated by "NVIDIA is claiming they will not support Wayland."

:rofl:

Ah, human factor!

[Chrome]

Performance will improve rapidly from now own i believe. It took much time to build their basic foundation, but now end user improvements should be more noticable.

Modern integrated gpus should be able to handle anything opensource thrown at them. Compositing effects, opensource games etc.

Only Linux workstation professionals really need discreet gpus.

Performance will improve when graphics will be outdated. I would buy Radeon 5670, but there isn't usable open source driver and it won't exist following 2 or 3 years. Radeon 5670 will be already out of stock in 2012.

Modern integrated gpus should be able to handle anything open source if Intel Linux drivers wouldn't be shit. You can't play at reasonable framerate open source game Nexuiz on Intel graphics, but it works fine (50fps) at outdated Geforce 7300GT.

[pingufunkybeat]

I would buy Radeon 5670, but there isn't usable open source driver

Who says that?

The open source driver should run almost every native 3d Linux app out there. For the rest, there are bug reports.

[Kano]

@TemplarGR

Using the latest flash 10.2 beta with youtube hd works when the pc is fast enough (as that does not use a very high bitrate it can be be bit slower than for bluray content). But you really forget the lots of atom based netbooks and lots of low budget pcs with slow cpu.

[pingufunkybeat]

I was actually shocked that I could stream HD content from youtube and show it fullscreen with very little CPU usage.

[BlackStar]

@TemplarGR

Using the latest flash 10.2 beta with youtube hd works when the pc is fast enough (as that does not use a very high bitrate it can be be bit slower than for bluray content). But you really forget the lots of atom based netbooks and lots of low budget pcs with slow cpu.

Why would you want to watch HD video on a 1024x600 Atom netbook? Something doesn't compute here.

AMD's upcoming Bobcat processors should be fast enough HD (plus they have hardware decode).