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Clutter's Latest Release Gains Wayland Back-End

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  • #11
    Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
    thats the problem when people involved are geeks that think that everyone uses their computer the same way they do
    I'm willing to admit that my usage may be unusual, and that not everyone uses remote displays. But aren't you (and particularly gamers) doing the very same crime you're accusing me of - taking local performance as the absolute highest priority, and considering those "remote display guys" as "geek corner cases"?

    X-on-Wayland may well be an acceptable way of running remote access, but the next question becomes whether or not the difference between Wayland and X will be traditional-application transparent. ie, my CAD applications are most likely going to stay on X, because you wouldn't believe how old the stuff industry considers to be "The Platform" is. So for me the question becomes, "Will my ancient CAD application run on Wayland?" In other words, what's the compatibility status?


    • #12
      AFAIK no compatibility, X apps will run on X like they do now on OS X.

      Don't freak out just yet, anyway. I doubt Wayland will be replacing X even in Fedora in the near future.


      • #13
        i think Wayland would be alternative to X, not replacement...
        i really dont need remote stuff and all other useless stuff, local display server is ok for me, same i dont know why PA have networking sound stuff...

        need to use PA, alsa itself cant yet hardware mix on my xonar dx ...


        • #14
          Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
          but afaik you can run X on wayland so no problem with remote stuff and maybe there will be VNC support or whatever
          Sorry, but VNC just doesn't cut it.

          X-on-Wayland probably would give me remote access to X-based apps, but what about Wayland-native apps?

          Oh and also: Remote desktop access has nothing to do with "geeks". It has been widely used in the IT and professional industries for years. If you think that all those people would need to switch to VNC, they would rather not I guess...


          • #15
            Originally posted by beniwtv View Post
            X-on-Wayland probably would give me remote access to X-based apps, but what about Wayland-native apps?
            i don't think there will be any Wayland-native apps. simply there will be either Qt or Gtk apps and each toolkit will have an X and Wayland backend.

            even if there were a Wayland-only app, i think you can run Wayland-on-X anyway. (i think most Wayland demos are run with this configuration)


            • #16
              It seems to be a common response that when network transparency is talked about on wayland, to be "Don't worry, X11 can run on wayland for compatability!". So what if I need to run a Wayland app remotely?

              Remote access is also used by non IT folks. Companies use Citrix to push some apps to their users, and some companies use Citrix servers from other companies.

              X11 and Citrix can push individual apps windows, while VNC right now just pushes the whole screen.

              I asked in the Wayland forum, I did not get an answer from Kristan, but it seems the Wayland "protocol" can only run over local because it uses some local buffer stuff. Here's the thread

              They said that networking could be implanted in each toolkit, which IMHO is not a good idea, as a networking stack, would have to be created for each toolkit, and would require the protocols for each toolkit to be installed on the machine with the display.

              They also said something like XPRA could be used, to export the windows.


              • #17
                What if wayland did its local buffer thing on the remote location then posed as an X client to your X server? Wouldn't that solve the problem, or am I simplifying it too much?


                • #18
                  Originally posted by garytr24 View Post
                  What if wayland did its local buffer thing on the remote location then posed as an X client to your X server? Wouldn't that solve the problem, or am I simplifying it too much?
                  I guess thats the theory anyway. Maybe it can even pose as a wayland client if you are running a remote wayland app, on your wayland desktop...

                  Also, I know I said this before, but I also don't know if I like the idea of the client side window managment/decorations. In Windows the directions are client side, and it effects the usability, not just with hung or frozen apps, as it uses workaround (which is not as nice), but for when an full screen app opens a modal window, you can't move the full screen window out of the way, or minimize it. this is frustrating when you open a save as dialog box, and want to see the desktop, or if it pops up a modal window for a long process, and you just want the window out of the way.

                  In fact, I don't know how its going to work with kdesudo'd/gksu'd apps running, its not going to fully load the profile, will the title bar be different, will the window behave differently like the UAC windows do in Windows NT 6.x? In 6.x, the UAC windows are not aeroified...

                  Lastly will window movement be inconsistant? will only some apps have edge resistance? will kwin like tiling be possible?

                  Sorry for the length, I don't mean to sound snottish, I just want to put these things up for consideration, as last I checked, even Kristan was not sure of doing client side decorations... I really hope something similar the X way for the decorating of windows is considered, as IMHO X does that really right for the desktop...


                  • #19
                    If Wayland doen't support remote desktops I will never use it. Actually I'm missing some remote features on the current X-Server. Like relocatable windows I want to be able to switch my musikplayer while running to the computer I'm using at the moment. I know there are possibilities for that but somehow they all end up beeing much slower and/or unstable.

                    And for all those Local display performance Freaks: you wont loose anything if such remote things are implemented. A graphics Server needs to be well thought of and there are many people who need those features. think of all the Universities internal Business Networks .... oh my God! if you remove those capabilities they'll need to invest millions of dollars!