Wine Wayland Merge Request Opened For Clipboard Support

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  • phoronix
    Administrator
    • Jan 2007
    • 67368

    Wine Wayland Merge Request Opened For Clipboard Support

    Phoronix: Wine Wayland Merge Request Opened For Clipboard Support

    While Wine 10.0 recently debuted with the initial Wine Wayland driver, that native Wayland support is still in early form with various limitations and yet-to-be-implemented features... One of the newly-opened merge requests for filling in another gap is clipboard support for the Wine Wayland driver...

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  • user1
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2019
    • 1109

    #2
    Would be nice if they'll eventually add support for xdg-decorations. Those Windows classic decorations Wine Wayland currently relies on look awful.

    Comment

    • Pheoxy
      Junior Member
      • Dec 2018
      • 18

      #3
      Originally posted by user1 View Post
      Would be nice if they'll eventually add support for xdg-decorations. Those Windows classic decorations Wine Wayland currently relies on look awful.
      Yeah when the DE is able to use its own themes in place instead its way more cohesive.

      Also clipboard support is nice, looking at you Warframe before you implemented Autologin.

      Comment

      • Weasel
        Senior Member
        • Feb 2017
        • 4509

        #4
        Ofc Wayland isn't a natural fit for Wine's proper method, since it loves to piss against the wind.

        Comment

        • oiaohm
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2017
          • 8469

          #5
          Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          Ofc Wayland isn't a natural fit for Wine's proper method, since it loves to piss against the wind.
          So proper method is leak information everywhere right..... Do note wine clipboard is known to break under X11 with xace enabled on clipboard as well. So I would not be calling wine method exactly proper.

          Comment

          • anda_skoa
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2013
            • 1205

            #6
            Originally posted by Weasel View Post
            Ofc Wayland isn't a natural fit for Wine's proper method, since it loves to piss against the wind.
            That is uncalled for.
            Wine does not love to piss against the wind.

            They do their best to bridge between the technologies and semantics of the platform they run on and the platform the applications are written against.
            Sometimes that might not be straight forward and look a bit hacky, however, this is not done despite better options.

            Comment

            • Weasel
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2017
              • 4509

              #7
              Originally posted by anda_skoa View Post

              That is uncalled for.
              Wine does not love to piss against the wind.

              They do their best to bridge between the technologies and semantics of the platform they run on and the platform the applications are written against.
              Sometimes that might not be straight forward and look a bit hacky, however, this is not done despite better options.
              What the hell are you talking about? X11 runs on the very same platforms and completely allows this.

              Wayland doesn't do their best whatsoever. Doesn't do shit. That's the problem.

              Comment

              • Weasel
                Senior Member
                • Feb 2017
                • 4509

                #8
                Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                So proper method is leak information everywhere right..... Do note wine clipboard is known to break under X11 with xace enabled on clipboard as well. So I would not be calling wine method exactly proper.
                Yeah, it's the clipboard, that's the point of it.

                If you put sensitive stuff on the clipboard while running apps you don't trust, that's a you issue.

                Maybe we should lock down root too, I mean it's dangerous for idiots who don't know what they're doing. Give root limited privileges, you know, just in case they run malicious apps under root!!!

                Some things were designed the way they were for a fucking reason.

                Comment

                • oiaohm
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2017
                  • 8469

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                  What the hell are you talking about? X11 runs on the very same platforms and completely allows this.
                  Not true. X11 does not completely allow this. This is why I mentioned X11 with xace.

                  Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                  Yeah, it's the clipboard, that's the point of it.

                  If you put sensitive stuff on the clipboard while running apps you don't trust, that's a you issue.
                  X11 with xace enabled clipboard comes MLS controlled.

                  Wine current clipboard completely fails in MLS controlled environments. So do a lot of X11 clipboard managers.

                  Weasel the behavior Wayland is demanding out of wine is the same behavior wine does need to implement to be X11 with xace enabled compatible.without having todo something else.

                  Yes MLS allows you to run applications of different security levels on the same screen and control how they interact.

                  Windows can have MLS enabled as well but the clipboard middle man program of windows links up to the Windows MAC. Notice how xace has selinux and other LSM integrations to get access to a Mandatory access Control.

                  Yes either implement that application itself that is the target of the clipboard receives the clipboard or alter the clipboard code that it can be controlled by the OS mandatoary access control and that is what is required to be X11 with xace compatible.

                  Wine clipboard processing is not 100 percent X11 compatible its not compatible with secure forms of X11.

                  Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                  Some things were designed the way they were for a fucking reason.
                  Some things of wine are just incomplete hacks. Wine own internal clipboard manager is an incomplete item when compared to windows running secure and the requirements to be used with X11 running with security enabled..

                  Weasel X11 clipboard always allowed for the possibility that application sending controlled what application could receive. This is a different clipboard design to windows. Lots of X11 server implementations implement the X11 clipboard in insecure mode where it just tells every application but this is not written in the X11 protocol. X11 x.org with xace enabled you see what is written in the X11 protocol for how clipboard should work.

                  Yes Windows and X11 protocol have different ideas how clipboard should work. Wayland clipboard design is secure subset of the X11 protocol clipboard design.

                  Comment

                  • anda_skoa
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2013
                    • 1205

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                    What the hell are you talking about?
                    That it is unfair to claim that Wine loves to piss against the wind just because they have chosen a path that seems somewhat hackish, like in this case having a pseudo window for intercepting the clipboard.

                    At the time that probably was good enough and only now falls apart.

                    With the new implementation they have discarded that hack and are now using the actual target window.
                    The change request also indicates that there might be further improvements.

                    Improvements that will also help Wine on X11.

                    Comment

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