Valve Engineer Mike Blumenkrantz Hoping To Accelerate Wayland Protocol Development

[fitzie]

Artim:

>> You probably mean SSD (server side decorations?). And yes, SSD should be made mandatory for any compositor and Gnome should shut up and implement it.

Why should anybody be that stupid and implement inferior technology?

Also Artim:

The issue is, how do you get every DE/WM under the sun to agree on default CSD that don't utterly look out of place and just terrible as a whole?

Of course there's about twenty insults I didn't capture, but that's pretty much the state of pro wayland support these days: Silly app developer you're trying to make an app that just works on any linux desktop? Why don't you fork wayland or stop complaining.

[deusexmachina]

You might want to open a history book ... middle school dropout.
...
Because that's the only sane thing.
...
And you might want to pick up a dictionary

If it is all so easy, then why such an overt refusal to explain yourself? Why such a need for ad hominem? Why exactly is "the only sane thing" to insinuate that those who critique a software project (in this case Wayland) must be anti-vaccine misogynists? Why not explain how you got there with logical steps and references? What happened to your supposed side being all about science and its principles?

[Artim]

JFC dude. Are you a Wayland dev? I hope so with the amount of ball gurgling you're doing.

No, but I'm not the one bitching around about it.

Also, "why haven't you fixed it" isn't an argument. Not my job. It is actually their job and they've had 16 f-ing years to do it.

Why do you think it would be their job? Do you have a contract with them that they are not fulfilling? If not, they have no fucking obligation towards you, but only to the ones paying their bills, if they don't happen to do stuff in their spare time, in which case only they themself decide what they do when.

[LockedPotato]

No, but I'm not the one bitching around about it.


Why do you think it would be their job? Do you have a contract with them that they are not fulfilling? If not, they have no fucking obligation towards you, but only to the ones paying their bills, if they don't happen to do stuff in their spare time, in which case only they themself decide what they do when.

Well maybe if they don't want to develop an X11 replacement they shouldn't be developing an X11 replacement and shitting up the Linux desktop in the process. Nobody made them do that. They chose to. So maybe they should do their damn job, that they elected to do, or f off already.

[Artim]

Lets be real we already have cases of gnome application under KDE looking out of place and the reverse. Majority of users would not care if it out of place as long as it equals that the window does not appear without title bar and control buttons.

So from usability point of view we don't need agreement.

You know that Wayland is driven by a bunch of different parties that need to agree on something to make it a default? Otherwise you'll end up with 10 "defaults" and have won nothing.

Lets say someone did a proxy wayland compositor as in like Xwayland except this compositor is just do SSD any application connecting to this compositor just add SSD. This would mostly fix up gnome and weston lack of SSD support.

Weston is already a kind of catch all Wayland compositor. And KDE is already doing SSD on Wayland, so what's you point?

This proxy compositor would be able to crash only taking down the SSD applications.

Not how anything works. Sure, you could just have every application have its own compositor, but I'm very certain this would only complicate things. But you are writing the wrong question. The question is not what apps would go down when the compositor crashes, but why on earth did the compositor crash in the first place? It shouldn't do that, so your need for a dedicated compositor for fixing this is quite irrelevant. And if you want programs not to be crashed when the compositor crashes, KDE has already implemented that feature. You just have to do that, no need for your ridiculous proposition.

In some ways for me it makes sense for the wayland protocol to provide two sockets one of CSD applications and one for SSD applications so that SSD processing and CSD processing can be independent processing so increasing stability.

I doubt that will increase any stability, you just don't know how anything works. But just go ahead, ask KDE devs how they implemented the ability to use SSD in Plasma 6. They'll probably also be able to tell you why your idea won't work.

[Artim]

Artim:


Also Artim:


Of course there's about twenty insults I didn't capture, but that's pretty much the state of pro wayland support these days: Silly app developer you're trying to make an app that just works on any linux desktop? Why don't you fork wayland or stop complaining.

Funny that any app I ever used worked independent form being designed for Gnome, Plasma or any other DE/WM or neither, both under X and Wayland...

[Artim]

If it is all so easy, then why such an overt refusal to explain yourself? Why such a need for ad hominem? Why exactly is "the only sane thing" to insinuate that those who critique a software project (in this case Wayland) must be anti-vaccine misogynists?

Not must be, just sadly are. Just take the last moron working on Xorg, an anti-vax piece of human garbage that desperately needs to be commited.

Why not explain how you got there with logical steps and references? What happened to your supposed side being all about science and its principles?

If basic human decency is too high for you I just won't waste my time with you as you are already a lost cause.

[Artim]

Well maybe if they don't want to develop an X11 replacement they shouldn't be developing an X11 replacement and shitting up the Linux desktop in the process. Nobody made them do that. They chose to. So maybe the should do their damn job, that they elected to do, or f off already.

They are in fact the only people successfully developing a X11 replacement. What do you have speaking for yourself beyond absolutely nothing? And yes, they decided to step up and actually do the dirty work instead of just complaining like you are. That's also the exact reason why only they themself and the poeple paying them are allowed to decide what they do when. Not you. Entitled assholes like you are merely the reason why more and more open source projects die because the developers are sick and tired of poeple like you, only demanding without ever contributing anything, be it time, money or other constructive help.

[deusexmachina]

Not must be, just sadly are. Just take the last moron working on Xorg, an anti-vax piece of human garbage that desperately needs to be commited.

Of course, if pressed, you always refuse to explain yourself. You disagree with someone politically or scientifically on an unrelated issue and this somehow gives you indefinite carte blanche to do evil acts against this person - and even brag about wanting to do so. Everyone knows this behavior is not fair or even necessarily legal. Taking away someone's freedom and forcibly committing them ("getting 5150'd") for disagreeing with you politically in a domain where they have every right to? This is the ethic to which you adhere and expect everyone to just bow down? Clearly a cult - and people are waking up to it!

[MrCooper]

I thought the point of wayland was to move everything out of the display server and into client side libraries, toolkits, etc.

Not sure how that's relevant for this topic, but anyway, you thought wrong.

Imagine if 16 years of development effort was spent renovating X, instead it was wasted chasing this Wayland bullshit.

We did work on improving X for many years, that's why it's still kind of usable today. Wayland exists because there are things which can't be fixed in X (without breaking compatibility with existing clients, at which point it doesn't really matter if the protocol is called Wayland, X12 or foobar).