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Valve Engineer Mike Blumenkrantz Hoping To Accelerate Wayland Protocol Development

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  • #31
    The issue with this is that it will fall into the same trap as "staging" and "unstable". The proposal is exactly what those two sections were supposed to be for, but the general consensus is that nothing can be accepted even into "unstable" until it's nearly perfect with only minor fixes left. An "experimental" branch will have the same issues because it's governed by the same people.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ezst036 View Post
      Why is it that everybody wants to maintain Wayland, but nobody wants to maintain X?
      Because X is an overbloated technology that can't support things like HDR. Linux desktop is today alive because HDR was a commercial failure, but the technology is becoming more popular slowly.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Britoid View Post

        If it should be mandatory, why doesn't macOS use it?
        Are you sure? A macOS app doesn't need to program its own title bar and minimise/maximise/close buttons. The OS will add them automatically. So macOS definitely supports server-side decorations, even if that terminology is not used.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ezst036 View Post
          Why is it that everybody wants to maintain Wayland, but nobody wants to maintain X?
          Because with Wayland, secure boot and some secret sauce we can achieve a sort of locked down walled garden so these cis cowboy root users can become more like us civilized iOS/Windows/Mac/Android users! For their own safety (and our own safety, of course) they need to be restricted from having so much access! How else are we gonna enforce digital rights management? How are we gonna coerce everyone onto the "next technology" if some bigoted cowboys are running free enticing and distracting the rest of the slave-*uhmm*-users!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Estranged1906 View Post
            Are you sure? A macOS app doesn't need to program its own title bar and minimise/maximise/close buttons. The OS will add them automatically. So macOS definitely supports server-side decorations, even if that terminology is not used.
            You are making mistake here. Mac OS is not server-side decorations. Just because decorations are automatically added does not mean it server side decorations.

            Client side decorations are produced in the application own process. Mac OS has system decorations​ but these are processed in the system provided toolkit running in the applications own process.

            Yes as Mac OS application programmer you don't need to code your own title bar and minimise/maximise button normally because if you don't tell Mac OS API that you will have to your own it basically going to run it own code in your program todo them. Yes this is like code injection into the client application that you turn off under MacOS when you say you are going to render your own.

            CSD and SSD both in theory can happen automatically with the programmer having todo anything. CSD and SSD are referring to what process is the decorations generated in. If the decoreations are generated in the applications process then it client side if the decorations are generated in something else like windows manager and so on then it called server side.

            We don't have a default CSD in libwayland-client. Its one of the wayland problems the CSD has no default CSD. Yes the argument for SSD decorations lot of it is lets not add a default CSD. Window sand MacOS both have a default CSD that will be used.

            Default CSD and SSD to application programmer look very much the same because they don't have to code anything but the system processing loads they are very different. Think application starts opening and closing stacks of windows rapidly the SSD part being windows manager/what ever could now to the OS kernel appear to be using lots of system resources and be out of control so gets terminated so harming end user as everything get disrupted. Now Default CSD the application doing the massive opening and closing of windows comes the target to be terminated because its the one who is doing massive amounts of processing.

            CSD with no default is pain in ass to application developers. CSD with default applications developers really don't see any difference to SSD.

            Yes this is the problem from the application developer point of view and end user there is very little difference between CSD with default and SSD so much so that people think they are the same when they are not.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by deusexmachina View Post

              Because with Wayland, secure boot and some secret sauce we can achieve a sort of locked down walled garden so these cis cowboy root users can become more like us civilized iOS/Windows/Mac/Android users! For their own safety (and our own safety, of course) they need to be restricted from having so much access! How else are we gonna enforce digital rights management? How are we gonna coerce everyone onto the "next technology" if some bigoted cowboys are running free enticing and distracting the rest of the slave-*uhmm*-users!
              Are you alright bro?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by hf_139 View Post
                I think that is great.

                Finally someone does something to get rid of those ever-blocking GNOME "developers" and traitors.
                How to absolutely disqualify yourself from any discussion. Well done.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by bkdwt View Post


                  Gnome developers need to go to hell!
                  Well said. As thinking for yourself, own opinions or - god forbid - women who know more than men was always said to be the devil's work and that everyone too smart should be burned at the stake, hell must be the place where only the best of people go, while heaven is just for pretentious and self-righteous wannabes like yourself.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by fitzie View Post
                    this is like shoveling the driveway in a blizzard. trying to fix one little broken thing with wayland when the cabal has the fundamentally wrong attitude. the corporate interests out there still funding this linux graphics need to step up and put an end to this madness. at this point the only way forward is to tear down freedesktop.org and rebuild a sane institution that organizes around replacing x11, cross compositor compatibility, and start catching up to the capabilities of other modern desktops, like with a roadmap and everything. gnome should probably be banned from leadership roles until they add CSD and publicly apologize for causing so much frustration for app developers and users for so long after it was clear their vision was faulty.
                    Nobody stopps you from building up an organization that does all that. Good luck getting anyone sane on board. Meanwhile freedesktop.org will just keep doing its job and actually improving the Linux desktop despite naysayers saying otherwise because they have no fucking clue about what they even say.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Doomer View Post
                      Are you alright bro?
                      Yes, I'm fine. How are you? Oh - but you asked whether I'm OK as return rhetoric because you've no dialectic available... And not because you care about my state of being.



                      Originally posted by Artim View Post
                      god forbid - women who know more than men was always said to be the devil's work
                      Where exactly are you getting this? I noted this in the previous thread too ( https://www.phoronix.com/forums/foru...48#post1491148 ) - the pro-Wayland audience always injecting leftist/gender/mainstream politics. And with how consistent and unnecessarily overpowered this seems - how can't we be left with skepticism and questions regarding what is actually going on and why?

                      This behavior is essentially a shorthand to signal brigading; "if you agree with this long list of victim narratives and perpretrators, then you must also agree that these people I've just marked as perpetrators is bad - and also be against them no matter what argumentation they state." And once they see the tag - like graffiti in a ghetto - all the rest follow with upvotes/downvotes/organizing/attacks. Meanwhile gaslighting as if you've been reasonable and been open to discussion and debate and critique - while never having been.


                      Last edited by deusexmachina; 26 September 2024, 07:15 AM.

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