Originally posted by Artim
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Valve Engineer Mike Blumenkrantz Hoping To Accelerate Wayland Protocol Development
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by billyswong View Post
You sound like you are in "I don't use feature A thus feature A must be useless" mindset. This is selfish.
Let me give a more mainstream example. GTK CSD applications currently provide a "Always on Top" option in header bar pop ups. But this feature is not standardized in Wayland and probably never will because of the security ideology of Wayland, which you are merrily appreciating right now. If Wayland provide such feature, it would allow software in background steal attention without user consent. Thus no it won't get implemented ever.
But that doesn't change anything I already said. All legitimate use cases that aren't just giant security issues will eventually be enables, but the more obscure and niche they are, the longer it will take.
So what is happening in those GTK CSD applications? They are doing an abstraction leak and bypassing the Wayland protocol, talking to Mutter in Wayland via a private method without cross-DE compatibility. Please pull your head out of the sand. Gnome/GTK is using the security card when they want to ban a feature they aren't interested in, then ignore security and cross-compatibility when it is a feature they like. All these are just arbitrary selfish decisions.
[cutting nonsensical rants]
Comment
-
Originally posted by ahrs View Post
Worked on where? Because https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-...3#note_1865439 is a KDE developer and his branch has zero chance of being merged if the GTK developers don't like it.
Comment
-
Originally posted by access View Post
Windows color management and HDR is a mess. What is landing in Wayland sure looks to be better and might even compete with the way Apple does things. But these things are seriously hard to get right and without unlimited funds it takes time 'cause the whole stack needs to support it from the kernel to the compositor… all the while hearding cats/foss developers.
Comment
-
What do people think about this? https://stopthemingmy.app/ I saw it on GNOME Resources GitHub.
I think it sounds reasonable and would probably put that on my app out-the-box (can't guarantee what anyone other than Fedora with default upstream GNOME does)Last edited by Espionage724; 27 September 2024, 08:27 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Artim View PostMaybe, but your refusal to give any reason why this in fact should be a feature only proves me right. A frozen window shouldn't be interacted with, a frozen window should notify the compositor so it can ask the user if it should wait or kill the app.
Originally posted by Artim View PostHow much more obvious do you want to make it that you are only out for Gnome bashing and so red-hot with rage that you can't even think? It is a big security issue when windows can just decide on their own to rise to the top-most level or worse forcing themselves to stay there, but if the user decides he wants a window to do exatcly that, it simply isn't a risc anymore, as the window does what the user expects, it doesn't do the unexpected. Jesus, just think before you write for once in your life!
Please, just admit that allowing CSD applications to contain an "Always on Top" button is sandbox breaking. Stop act as if Gnome is always right and "think before you write".
Originally posted by Artim View PostUnless you learn to think and actually reason, there is no place for your bs rants. Come back when you learned some basic common sense and logic!
p.s. I agree with Gnome standpoint of not giving applications a mean to place their windows in arbitrary absolute coordinate without sanitization. A broken clock is correct twice a day.Last edited by billyswong; 27 September 2024, 10:21 PM.
- Likes 2
Comment
-
Originally posted by Espionage724 View PostWhat do people think about this? https://stopthemingmy.app/ I saw it on GNOME Resources GitHub.
I think it sounds reasonable and would probably put that on my app out-the-box (can't guarantee what anyone other than Fedora with default upstream GNOME does)
- Likes 1
Comment
-
Originally posted by billyswong View Post
It is a joke that all your praises of Wayland security disappear conveniently for whenever functionalities that happen to be not used by you.
Moving a window is supposed to be a job of the window compositor. It should be functional no matter the user application is hanging or not. A program hangs and looks like the user needs to wait it a while until it finishes its job. So the user moves it to a convenient spot outside the center of focus. This is a simple workflow. Nothing fancy.
In an SSD application, the "Always on Top" button is provided by the compositor. No security sandbox breaking. In a CSD application, the "Always on Top" button is provided by the application itself.
Painting any inconvenient truth that you refuse to face as "bs rants", wow.
Comment
-
Originally posted by billyswong View Post
It is a joke that all your praises of Wayland security disappear conveniently for whenever functionalities that happen to be not used by you. Moving a window is supposed to be a job of the window compositor. It should be functional no matter the user application is hanging or not. A program hangs and looks like the user needs to wait it a while until it finishes its job. So the user moves it to a convenient spot outside the center of focus. This is a simple workflow. Nothing fancy.
In an SSD application, the "Always on Top" button is provided by the compositor. No security sandbox breaking. In a CSD application, the "Always on Top" button is provided by the application itself. What magic does Gnome know, such that Mutter can differentiate between user clicking on that button within the CSD application, and the application pretending such button has been pressed by user? Sorry, if such magic is possible, all the rationale of restricting Wayland protocol functionality will be moot.
Please, just admit that allowing CSD applications to contain an "Always on Top" button is sandbox breaking. Stop act as if Gnome is always right and "think before you write".
Painting any inconvenient truth that you refuse to face as "bs rants", wow.
p.s. I agree with Gnome standpoint of not giving applications a mean to place their windows in arbitrary absolute coordinate without sanitization. A broken clock is correct twice a day.
I can't recall seeing any "on top" button in any GNOME/GTK apps, at least not Wayland based ones. I guess apps running via xwayland might try but I suspect the on top hints are just ignored.Last edited by access; 28 September 2024, 08:46 AM.
- Likes 1
Comment
Comment