Valve Engineer Mike Blumenkrantz Hoping To Accelerate Wayland Protocol Development

[Artim]

At this point just nuke Wayland and give up on that hopeless pile of shit. Focus on Arcan or something.

Good one. You just have to find anyone that's able to understand how the fuck this utter piece of garbage even works, and then you'll have to convince everyone that it's actually any usable and not just a brain fart of a know-it-all that's just not able to ever work. Good luck getting that done.

But yes, I see, you again are just paid by Microsoft to desperately try to undermine the fast improvement of Linux as a desktop OS. Well, sorry to tell you, but if your overlords don't want to fade into oblivion in the foreseeable future, they might want to switch gears and actually implement what users want and stop doing everything in the most user-hostile way they can think of.

[Artim]

If every judge had to be said professional within a field, you'd have no judging left, for instance I do not expect judges to actively fight in the UFC to perform their function.

Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without telling me you don't know what you are talking about. If you talk about judges in the juridical sense, of course they must be professionals in the field they judge, otherwise when they abuse their position, they can be suspended. But I'd never let a judge call a UFC tournament. If you mean judge in the sense of a referee, he better be a professional. He must know exactly what he's doing and should also have the experience of the sport, otherwise in cases where the rules leave wiggle room, he'd just make bs calls and nobody would want him call any games.

The Gnome foundation has done more to halt Wayland progress than the remainders combined. Their coding is equally shoddy, but their UI/UX is decent.

Right. That must be the reason why the Wayland implementation in Gnome is by far the most mature, and why Gnome was by a very long leap the first DE to ever have a Wayland session, not to mention a Wayland session mature enough that you could default to it without causing issues for every user. If anyone hinders Wayland progress it's the smallerDEs/WMs as they have yet to even have a first draft of a Wayland session. They are the only reason we need to keep X around, while both Gnome and Plasma now reached a state where you could get rid of a dedicated X session altogether without any drawbacks.

[WileEPyote]

Well thanks for acknlowedging the truth. But that doesn't explain why you literally quote a post that was only about oom with SSD and CSD, basically stating that you hate GTK apps for not allowing SSD and thus inferior oom-killing.



If the app's devs wanted that, they would have included a Qt-based theme. Only very few apps like LibreOffice allow that. Forcing an app to use a different look as it's supposed to have - no matter if you force a Qt look onto GTK apps or the other way round - will always backfire. Sure I'd prefer Qt apps to obey GTK design guidelines, but that won't ever happen, SSD or not. That's just not what SSD can ever be capable of.



Nobody's forcing you to. But reality is, most GUI apps are made with GTK, so unless you get the devs to also support a Qt theme, you'll have to live with that, if you like it or not. SSD can't change that.



Not gonna happen. You'd have to get DE/WM developers to implement them into their compositors. That won't happen. And fragmentation just for the sake of fragemntation never helped anybody.



Except we aren't. For many things that are possible on Wayland, Windows has no concept. And for many other things, while it may have a solution, like HDR, it's nowhere good. I prefer to wait actually good solutions instead of half-assed garbage. If you are not, you should just switch to Windows then.

The very beginning of the post I quoted talks about GTK apps not following theming. The backend doesn't matter to me.

Oh, but we are behind Windows. HDR works. Perfectly all the time? No. But the glitches are easy to fix by retoggling a setting 9/10. That's infinitely fucking superior than not having any support. VRR works great. VR works great. Do I really have to keep going with how far behind we are here?

You can't get perfection upon release. To aim for it is just stupid. There's no way to test all possible combinations. You release, take bug reports, fix, rinse, repeat. Seems Wayland devs are forgetting that little part of the equation.

I hope Valve keeps firing these shots off against Wayland. Maybe it will motivate them to actually get a fucking move on.

I don't give a shit about mission statements or philosophies as to why decisions are made the way they are. I'm a customer/consumer that wants to have all of his hardware features usable. I've had this card for a year now, and I do have to boot into Windows to have everything just work, and that pisses me off, because I don't really want to use Windows.

Get your shit together Wayland, if Valve didn't make it perfectly clear this week, it's time to pick up the fucking pace.

[Artim]

The very beginning of the post I quoted talks about GTK apps not following theming. The backend doesn't matter to me.

Then maybe next time limit your quote to what you actually mean. If 99 % of the quote are about something very different, it should be obvious how that can be misleading[/quote]

Oh, but we are behind Windows. HDR works. Perfectly all the time? No. But the glitches are easy to fix by retoggling a setting 9/10. That's infinitely fucking superior than not having any support. VRR works great. VR works great. Do I really have to keep going with how far behind we are here?[/quote]

Yes, if you want to convince everyone that's not just a blatant fanboy, you'll have to. Because that's absolutely not what I'd call "works", but just Microsofts typical user hostility of releasing features nobody actually want (or even can make use of) and the people that actually want it or can use it have to deal with a broken by design implementation. And how big would be the benefit if Windows actually properly supported HDR, including mixed content? Right, nill, as there's just no content that can make use of it. And when it comes to VRR, it's been working great for me, on both Gnome and Plasma, so no superiority of Windows. And no, VR doesn't work with Windows and certainly not great. It was working abysmally, it was actually so bad that all companies that did support it dropped it like every bs Microsofts pulls and instead went full standalone.

You can't get perfection upon release. To aim for it is just stupid. There's no way to test all possible combinations. You release, take bug reports, fix, rinse, repeat.

There's a large difference between Microsofts "release the garbage whenever, the dumb consumers know we are incompetent and will wait years until it actually works" only matched by the likes of Arch linux, and the "have a sane, thought through and tested solution" of Wayland.

Seems Wayland devs are forgetting that little part of the equation.

Except they didn't.

I hope Valve keeps firing these shots off against Wayland. Maybe it will motivate them to actually get a fucking move on.

That wouldn't do anything beyond harming their reputation. The experimental branch is a failure by design, compositors can already pick up protocols that aren't finished yet, but they will most certainly not pick up any half-assed garbage.

I don't give a shit about mission statements or philosophies as to why decisions are made the way they are.

And that's exactly why you aren't in charge of anything relevant.

I'm a customer/consumer that wants to have all of his hardware features usable. I've had this card for a year now, and I do have to boot into Windows to have everything just work, and that pisses me off, because I don't really want to use Windows.

Then quit whining like a little entitled brat and contribute yourself. Either get your own hands dirty and write your own code or at least give the professionals some money.

Get your shit together Wayland, if Valve didn't make it perfectly clear this week, it's time to pick up the fucking pace.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but there is nothing to speed up. All the features you are bickering about are either already implemented or at least experimental support in both Plasma and Gnome. If other DEs/WMs Wayland sessions don't that's not the issue of Wayland, but of these DEs/WMs developers.

[Aeder]

Why is it that everybody wants to maintain Wayland, but nobody wants to maintain X?

I wonder if it's possible to trick all the "rewrite it in Rust!" people into rewriting X.org in Rust

[MastaG]

Ah too late.. wanted to mention some rewrite in rust things..
Oh well...

[Artim]

I wonder if it's possible to trick all the "rewrite it in Rust!" people into rewriting X.org in Rust

Nobody's stopping them. But probably by the time they are done, everybody will probably have moved on from Rust to something even better...

[pharmasolin]

Writing in an epic thread. As a linux user I'm supporting this riot. GO GO GO!
And I hope cosmic DE will take some portion of users from gnome, and linux desktop will cure itself soon

[Artim]

And I hope cosmic DE will take some portion of users from gnome, and linux desktop will cure itself soon

Nothing to cure here beyond the S76 idiots, and thankfully that Cosmic pile of garbage is doomed to fail. It's actually ridiculous if you think about it, they set out to write their "own DE" which is just a bad knockoff off semi-modern Gnome, because they noticed that their Cosmic adaptation of Gnome just sucked ass looking as least as old as Gnome 3, and because Gnome supposedly was too slow for them, yet anything they set out to have better than Gnome will actually be finalized in Gnome before they can get out their first stable release. And that not enough, as soon as their users notice that none of the countless extensions they use work anymore, they'll leave faster than S76 can see. Well, that's what you call carma. Leaving your users high and dry on a half-broken garbage OS on a DE they made look disgustingly old, now they'll soon get the bill for their arrogance. Beyond Redox OS that doomed themselves to only use rust - like a cook that never learned to use the right tools for the right purpose - probably nobody will have any real use for it. No benefits over already existing DEs, wonky look, almost every app will look out of place. Great work.

[SophiaS]

Nothing to cure here beyond the S76 idiots, and thankfully that Cosmic pile of garbage is doomed to fail. It's actually ridiculous if you think about it, they set out to write their "own DE" which is just a bad knockoff off semi-modern Gnome, because they noticed that their Cosmic adaptation of Gnome just sucked ass looking as least as old as Gnome 3, and because Gnome supposedly was too slow for them, yet anything they set out to have better than Gnome will actually be finalized in Gnome before they can get out their first stable release. And that not enough, as soon as their users notice that none of the countless extensions they use work anymore, they'll leave faster than S76 can see. Well, that's what you call carma. Leaving your users high and dry on a half-broken garbage OS on a DE they made look disgustingly old, now they'll soon get the bill for their arrogance. Beyond Redox OS that doomed themselves to only use rust - like a cook that never learned to use the right tools for the right purpose - probably nobody will have any real use for it. No benefits over already existing DEs, wonky look, almost every app will look out of place. Great work.

A lot of words for nothing to say beyond "blubb".