Frog-FIFO-V1 Aims To Address Mesa's "Fundamentally Broken" Wayland Code

[WileEPyote]

And there it is, when you are forced to realize that you have been proven wrong, you just shift goalposts until you find some barely valid point where you could be right. Windows is years - if not decades - behind everyone in every way except in numbers of users stupid enough to use the worst solution that can exits and the amount of money they can make from them.

I have mentioned hardware feature support over and over. What do you think HDR, VR and VRR are? And yes, Windows is behind in many ways, but not when it comes to using the latest up to date hardware features. It's always ahead of us there. My 7900XTX still doesn't have all of it's features available across the entire Wayland ecosystem. (Or X for that matter.) So exactly how was I proven wrong? Buggy support that you can tweak and get working is better than no support.

There you go being a self righteous asshole again.

[Martyn]

Windows is years - if not decades - behind everyone in every way except in numbers of users stupid enough to use the worst solution that can exits and the amount of money they can make from them.

Please, please, please don't make that claim. Figured I'd sign up for an account so that I can give my experience as someone who has used Linux long-term.

I've used Linux since Fedora Core 4 landed and it's always been so close yet so far. It even got to the stage where things were objectively superior in many ways between XP (circa 2005'ish) and Windows 8.1 (~2014ish). When Windows 10 landed, and started to add more robust GPU VRAM and explicit sync support, along with proper GPU acceleration of both old and new GUI toolkits alike, Linux fell behind and has been playing catch-up ever since.

Basic things like watching HTML5 video (i.e. 4K@60 YouTube on AMD GPUs) lagged horrifically until Chrome 130 with Mesa 24.1 due to a lack of Vulkan+VAAPI support when used with Wayland compositors. WebRTC support for large group video calls is still a mess due to a lack of hardware video acceleration without custom Chromium patches (and on Firefox it's unimplemented, Chromium browsers are as good as you'll get for this) and said functionality only works properly on Intel iGPUs. None of these things work at all on NVIDIA GPUs at all despite a perfectly good API being available for at least decode support called VDPAU (elFarto did a good job on Firefox but thanks to Firefox sucking you still get lag and wasted power). Even an iPad does better than my primary desktop running Linux for watching online videos and making group video calls, and so does Windows inside a VM using vfio (compared to Linux on bare metal).

Proper support has only just been added for VR headsets (Windows gained this ~8 years ago) and it still has issues. Likewise for 10bpc colour (without HDR) which also doesn't work properly alongside XWayland in many cases (yet, Windows handles mixed colour limits gracefully!)

Wayland compositors on Linux aren't even ahead on brand new features, where they should at least be keeping up with the competition. Maxing out VRAM, whether on an AMD or NVIDIA dGPU (with the HMM-supporting open kernel module) using an LLM workload completely shags desktop performance, while on Windows, the system not only continues to chug along nicely, it even continues to "just work" over RDP because the system knows how to virtualise usage of system RAM as additional VRAM in a manner where allocations under extreme load fail (somewhat) sanely. Windows can even TDR in a worst-case scenario without all your applications dying (since mid-2015) but no proper mechanism for this exists on Wayland compositors (as of 2024!).

TL;DR: Windows is not decades behind on anything. People who say that have no idea what they're talking about.

[Artim]

Yet Windows is still YEARS ahead of Wayland in supporting hardware features.

Wayland is still the best option in Linux right now, but fuck Wayland devs for holding up progress.

And there it is, when you are forced to realize that you have been proven wrong, you just shift goalposts until you find some barely valid point where you could be right. Windows is years - if not decades - behind everyone in every way except in numbers of users stupid enough to use the worst solution that can exits and the amount of money they can make from them.

[Artim]

Must be another Wayland article - Artim is here trolling absolutely everyone again without contributing a single useful piece of information to the discussion. Probably another closet Windows user.

Right. Moronic much? The fact that I'm not as idiotic praising X11 or even Arcan makes me a Troll? Then I better be a Troll than a moronic bastard like you.

[White Wolf]

What does this have to do with anything on this topic?

Even if it did, Vaxry doesn't have a ton of credibility, let alone goodwill in the community.

Ofc Vaxry does have credibility, he created the best wayland tiling compositor. So your argument here is invalid. Based on biased form so called "community".

[WileEPyote]

Oh, Weasel must have gotten a new moronic friend. Do you really want to tell me Microsoft went out of their way to pay for another incompetent Windows fanboy only out to badmouth the most advanced building blocks of modern Linux because they yet again can't keep up with their development? Well, I'm sorry to tell you, but Windows market share is plummeting for over two decades now, and with every user-hostile change your overlords implement it only accelerates. Windows will soon enough fade into oblivion, as the only place it belongs. Meanwhile none of the users coming to Linux are facing any of the "dire" issues you assholes keep repeating like a mantra. Very strange...

Yet Windows is still YEARS ahead of Wayland in supporting hardware features.

Wayland is still the best option in Linux right now, but fuck Wayland devs for holding up progress.

[andyprough]

If you finally accept that it does, then stop whining like a little brat.

Must be another Wayland article - Artim is here trolling absolutely everyone again without contributing a single useful piece of information to the discussion. Probably another closet Windows user.

[Artim]

You see, Weasel? It thinks "wayland-claqueur chatbot" means "wayland-based" or "running on wayland". No deeper understanding of context with such trivial sentence, just like any LLM.

Oh, Weasel must have gotten a new moronic friend. Do you really want to tell me Microsoft went out of their way to pay for another incompetent Windows fanboy only out to badmouth the most advanced building blocks of modern Linux because they yet again can't keep up with their development? Well, I'm sorry to tell you, but Windows market share is plummeting for over two decades now, and with every user-hostile change your overlords implement it only accelerates. Windows will soon enough fade into oblivion, as the only place it belongs. Meanwhile none of the users coming to Linux are facing any of the "dire" issues you assholes keep repeating like a mantra. Very strange...

[gotar]

So Wayland chatbots are that much better than even the largest, most expensive LLMs? Wayland keeps getting better by the day.

You see, Weasel? It thinks "wayland-claqueur chatbot" means "wayland-based" or "running on wayland". No deeper understanding of context with such trivial sentence, just like any LLM.

[Artim]

You're talking with wayland-claqueur chatbot.

So Wayland chatbots are that much better than even the largest, most expensive LLMs? Wayland keeps getting better by the day.