Wayland Color Management Protocol Posted For Weston

[mSparks]

All the distrobutions that make up OpenELA is default wayland. Yes Orcale and SUSE is default Wayland Just like RHEL.

No OpenELA does not promise community vote.

https://openela.org/news/hello_world/ Yes Oracle/Suse deciding to work with CIQ. All three see Wayland as the way forwards.

Yes all OpenELA is that you can still legally get your mits on RHEL equivalent sources.

Horrible newest current OpenELA design is RHEL deprecates something OpenELA in future will also deprecate it. “OpenELA is our response to this need, and it represents a commitment to helping the open source community continue to develop compatible EL distributions.” Yes EL distributions as one to one to RHEL.

They haven't promised a community vote yet, but they have had fairly active discussions on how to implement it, and it is the expectation of members. All the EL distributions are only going for 1:1 up to RHEL 8. Anything beyond RHEL8 will be standardised on ELA or will be non standard and uninteresting to enterprise or other professionals (see also, https://almalinux.org/blog/future-of-almalinux/). The whole reason RHEL9 isn't seeing any adoption is it breaks to much stuff.

https://openela.org/faq/

How does a true open source standard benefit enterprises?

Enterprise organizations and IT professionals require consistency, stability, and reliability for their core infrastructure. The Enterprise Linux ecosystem has experienced many changes recently, resulting in generalized concern on the part of large organizations, about whether large organizations can entrust their infrastructure to any of the Enterprise Linux distributions. This is because we’ve seen significant disruptive changes in Enterprise Linux since CentOS’s End-of-Life, and this is having a negative impact on the ecosystem’s trust in Enterprise Linux as a whole.

OpenELA solves this by ensuring that there is a proper community initiative standing behind Enterprise Linux in a way that provides stability and long-term assurances.

[dpeterc]

All the distrobutions that make up OpenELA is default wayland. Yes Orcale and SUSE is default Wayland Just like RHEL.

Latest openSUSE 15.5 (released in June 2023) does not use Wayland by default. Wayland is an option at login screen.

Enterprise users prefer functionality and backwards compatibility over the new and shiny fad. They don't like being told to rewrite all the software.

[Spacefish]

There is no way for one to devise one single objective scheme on how to tonemap a P3 image displaying on a 9x% P3 monitor. Shall we desaturate the P3 images color together with sRGB images? Or we desaturate the P3 images only for the most saturated part while keeping sRGB images (and P3 image portions within the sRGB color range) accurate? Or we desaturate P3 images evenly and let sRGB images color mismatch with the P3 images if placed together?

The stupidity here is metadata for how to handle these shouldn't have been needed. Unlike luminosity, nearly no users need relative color saturation in viewing photos or watching movies.

Well that´s why there are rendering intends.. Typically for viewing content you want "Perceptual", which basically compresses the source materials color space into the bounds of your target devices color space, if the source colorspace is larger than the target colorspace.

Then there is relativ colormetrics, which clips any out of gamut colors and skews the source colorspace, such that whitepoints allign.

Absolute colormetric does the same, but does not skew the colorspace.

In the end it should be up to the user to define how color space conversion is handled depending on source material, as it highly depends on the task you are performing and maybe your preference.. For example most users are accustomed to have sRGB upscaled to the native color space of their device, as otherwise the colors look quite dull.

But if someone is doing color sensitive work, they might want to set the rendering intent to Absolute Colormetric and maybe have clipped colors hightlighted or something like that..

This is just color spaces, not Luminance, HDR / luminance is another whole topic

[tgurr]

Looks like you _can_ load ICC in Wayland now, just that there is no GUI for it yet: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ICC_profiles go down to 3.4 for the details on Wayland.

And if I run "colormgr get-devices" and "colormgr get-profiles on my Ubuntu 23.04 on Wayland it looks like it applied the correct ICC automatically.

Thanks for the info, I gave it a quick try today and while it did change something in the appearance the result certainly didn't look identical to colord applying the same icc profile on X11. Like it did apply some sort of contrast changes but not the actual color correction as the screen still looked way to blueish afterwards. I didn't do any indepth research though.

[oiaohm]

Latest openSUSE 15.5 (released in June 2023) does not use Wayland by default. Wayland is an option at login screen.

Enterprise users prefer functionality and backwards compatibility over the new and shiny fad. They don't like being told to rewrite all the software.

Do note SUSE did announce with 15 they were going Wayland default. Yes that for 16.

Enterprise is not exactly happy with X11 protocol security issues either.

[oiaohm]

OpenELA solves this by ensuring that there is a proper community initiative standing behind Enterprise Linux in a way that provides stability and long-term assurances.

Nothing says that OpenELA is not going to follow the path of Wayland default.

Thing to remember making OpenELA does not solve the problem. No major party wants to pay for X11 server maintenance. Major parties will pay for Gnome/KDE development and Xwayland development but if you are on X11 bare metal you are resource-less.. Yes Nvidia grid only work with X11 yet Nvidia does not pay for anyone to maintainer x.org xserver that it depends on.

May not like redhat but one thing Redhat has been willing todo is put money into staff to work on core parts and get them up to be being quality.


Of course it is worse than this Nvidia proposed extention to X11 to handle HDR better over a decade ago that never merged.

https://www.phoronix.com/news/X11-DeepColor-Visual-RFC

Yes this in 2017 never merged.

7. Issues

This spec does not address how HDR content should be downsampled to SDR content
for e.g. automatic redirection, XGetImage(), or core X11 / RENDER rendering.
Perhaps the server could handle this transparently without the need for
explicit functionality outlined in the spec.

This spec does not address what should happen to
__DEEPCOLOR_COMPOSITOR_COLORSPACES when an HDR-unaware compositor is started, as
it probably should.

Got stuck on this point. Also got stuck that it was Nvidia say hey everyone one else working on x.org source code will have to make this work. Most other parties in the history of x.org proposing a protocol change put forward draft patches to update everything x.org project was providing to demo what they had done.

HDR support on Linux has been down right slow. Some of it is lack of paid staff to work on open source x.org X11 server to push it though.

[Errinwright]

(Melissa's fine work is mainly for the Steam Deck. Its KMS UAPI is specific to AMD hardware and won't be available to user space in upstream kernels.

Thanks for the info, but thats a shame for AMD users..

[mSparks]

Nothing says that OpenELA is not going to follow the path of Wayland default.

ELA is source repository for enterprise linux, it will be up to the distributions to choose what defaults they go with.

but if you are on X11 bare metal you are resource-less.

That is what I implied, just phrased it from a user pov that redhat has abandoned long term stability and assurances. Those who want and need that will (already are) just take their money they were giving to redhat somewhere else who hasn't.

[oiaohm]

That is what I implied, just phrased it from a user pov that redhat has abandoned long term stability and assurances. Those who want and need that will just take their money they were giving to redhat somewhere else who hasn't.

You are not thinking this through. Yes you give money to Redhat then who has Redhat been giving this money on to.

Remember the Full time X11 x.org bare metal server maintainer use to be a Redhat full time paid staff. No party since Redhat stepped down out of that role has stepped up to pay this bill.

https://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-announce/2021-October/003115.html

Like where are the 6 monthly point releases?

mSparks nothing about OpenELA says they are going to reach into pockets and start paying people like Redhat has been to maintain code bases to provide stability and assurances.

The reality here is no party has stepped forwards to pay "Povilas Kanapickas" a full time wage to take care of X11 on bare metal. The developer working on xwayland on the other hand gets paid a full time wage from Redhat todo that task.

So enterprise want and need stability and assurances yet enterprise are not willing to pay the bill for that?.

Also just to give you part of the horror story the patch that was merged into master branch by kanapickas was merge into Xwayland branch a full year ago yes Kanapickas has a growing backlog because he cannot work on bare metal server full time.

This is why I said x.org bare metal is a zombie at the moment and others call it dead. Like it or not Wayland development is funded and the core parts of the x11 server to run a bare metal solution without wayland is not funded. Money makes the world go round in the software development world like it or not.

[mSparks]

So enterprise want and need stability and assurances yet enterprise are not willing to pay the bill for that?.

They are paying the bills for it.
Just to oracle and suse now instead of redhat.
Thats why IBMs revenue is down 0.5%, and Oracles revenue is up 15% since Matt Hicks took over red hat and started making all these batshit crazy decisions like removing X11 from EL and pirating linux, to fund his wayland fetish, a display server that might do color in 15 years.