Originally posted by oiaohm
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KDE On Wayland: "The Biggest Thing Needed Now Is Adoption By 3rd Party Apps"
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Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
From what I've seen, I highly doubt that Roman or the Kwin devs would ever choose to work with one another again. Too much bad blood.
That doesn't mean they won't work with wlroots, though.
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Originally posted by mSparks View Post"turning off tearing" (disabling vsync in X11 lingo) is a completely different thing than disabling compositing (fancy window animation effects and drawing over each other) which cannot be disabled in wayland - there is no concept of a separate display server in wayland, its compositor or black screen.Phoronix, Linux Hardware Reviews, Linux hardware benchmarks, Linux server benchmarks, Linux benchmarking, Desktop Linux, Linux performance, Open Source graphics, Linux How To, Ubuntu benchmarks, Ubuntu hardware, Phoronix Test Suite
Again wrong. What you you think Direct Scan-Out features do. The performance losses in 2021 test align with tearing being forbid not windows animations.
Direct scan-out tell GPU take this DMABUF from X application that is full screen and output it to screen as fast as configured.
Separate display server is kind of a joke. X11 bare metal only performs as well as it does because opengl/vulkan uses a direct scanout mode and bipass the complete thing.
No X11 server no output either right mSparks. Also remember drm leasing used by VR. Yes the fastest output is not wayland or x11 is take out a drm lease on the output so bypassing X11 server and the Wayland compositor completely.
Yes X11 display server or Wayland compositor are both overhead. It would be really useful of someone redid those 2021 benchmarks but this time with drm lease under X11 and Wayland and direct to linux drm in the mix. Yes direct to linux drm would be lowest overhead possible while using the Linux kernel.
There is high possibility that X11 bare metal with no compositor performance is no difference to Wayland compositors in Direct Scan Out mode. Like it or not x11 bare metal without a compositor running display server still has overhead.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View PostAgain wrong. What you you think Direct Scan-Out features do.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostDMABUF
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostAlso remember drm leasing used by VR.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostNo X11 server no output either right mSparks.
At least you got something right.
Originally posted by oiaohm View Postso bypassing X11 server and the Wayland compositor completely.
Originally posted by oiaohm View PostYes X11 display server or Wayland compositor are both overhead.
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Originally posted by mSparks View PostDMABUF is a 100% CPU function and has no place in high performance graphics..
Indeed, if you have no protocol to transfer keyboard/video/mouse between applications those applications cannot process the keyboard/video/mouse.
that what this does.
Also then you have the new input capture portal. You don't need X11 or Wayland protocols to access keyboard/video/mouse under Linux. VR applications are very high performance things both X11 and Wayland have too much latency for VR headsets.
The highest performance lowest latency graphical applications under Linux don't use X11 or Wayland and they are VR applications.
Originally posted by mSparks View PostINPUT latancy, X11 has none, Wayland has a lot. Because Wayland has a ton of logic added so that screen recording, multiple screens and the mouse cursor work like dogshit so the screen never tears, and turning tearing off does not remove that logic, neither does Direct Scan-Out.
There is a reason why I said I wanted to see application using DMA lease and direct DRM in the mix these would be Linux native VR applications that are in fact designed for the lowest latency..
This is semi-redundant with #227, but its narrower scope might make it more achievable than a fully general USB device portal. For brevity I'm going to use "joystick" the same way the kernel and ud...
Yes lots of games also go direct to evdev directly so bipass X11 input stack and if they are doing a evdev bipass they also bipass the Wayland compositor input stack using the same methods.Last edited by oiaohm; 19 September 2023, 11:53 AM.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
You are aware when you are using opengl and vulkan under X11 baremetal with AMD/Intel you are using DMABUF as well. So by this statement X11 has no place in high performance graphics either when using AMD and Intel.
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Originally posted by oiaohm View PostHow does VR applications do it that use DMA leasing. Directly using libinput that takes you direct to Linux kernel provide input events by edev.
That has nothing to do with input latency and everything to do with the Wayland protocol being unable to acomplish simple tasks like render directly to a screen - BY DESIGN.
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Originally posted by mSparks View PostTop of the line modern AMD/Intel cards are generally vastly out performed by bottom of the line nvidia cards from nearly 10 years ago for exactly that reason.
Now that the sources are no longer restricted from using GPL symbols, can we please have true Linux DMABUF import support? Currently NVIDIA reports EGL_EXT_image_dma_buf_import however this is not ...
Our X driver uses it for reverse-PRIME support
Nvidia was not the answer mSparks you just proved past question you don't know this topic.Last edited by oiaohm; 19 September 2023, 12:06 PM.
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Originally posted by mSparks View PostColor calibration support
multiple screen support
VR support
screen recording and streaming support
high fps support
not requiring a reboot because it crashes every 5 minutes support
mouse cursor support (it doesnt tear, but it does take 3 seconds to move)
Originally posted by mSparks View Post
"turning off tearing" (disabling vsync in X11 lingo) is a completely different thing than disabling compositing [...]
Originally posted by mSparks View PostINPUT latancy, X11 has none, Wayland has a lot.
Without tearing, a good Wayland compositor's latency is same as or better than Xorg.
With tearing, it should be a wash.
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