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KDE On Wayland: "The Biggest Thing Needed Now Is Adoption By 3rd Party Apps"

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  • Originally posted by kiffmet View Post
    Out of those, these work perfectly fine by now:
    • multiple screen support - currently using a mixed-DPI setup, both screens receive different scale factors
    • screen recording and streaming support - has been working for a good year and a half now
    • remote application and ssh forwarding support - waypipe…
    • high fps support - has never been an issue
    • not requiring a reboot because it crashes every 5 minutes support - currently 10 days of continuous uptime without a single crash
    • mouse cursor support (it doesnt tear, but it does take 3 seconds to move) - don't use a 24hz display then or use a compositor that doesn't use tripple buffering and/or let you prefer latency
    • actually being better than X11 in any way - Xorg can't do different scale factors simultanously, nor can it support VRR on multiple screens with different refresh rates
    Maybe get a less outdated list of issues the next time, instead of regurgitating half-truths from over 2 years ago.
    screen recording: nope, not working, just now possible in very limited circumstances. Huge difference.
    high fps support: very much an issue, wayland is lacking 90% of the gpu acceleration that comes with X11 and requires a load of compositing graphics on the CPU (which unlike X11 you cant disable), that limits it to a few hundred fps when X11 can do 10s of thousands.
    multiple screen support: nope, because there is no xrandr equivlent, so any software that depends on xrandr doesnt work and never will.
    VRR: lol, yeah, huge win.
    mouse: nah, that is just a wayland bug that has been hanging around for 10 years and they cant seem to fix.

    maybe try using what you are shilling for, for more than just browsing phoronix and nastyvideotube. (which I do agree, wayland is fine for, just not much else)
    Last edited by mSparks; 19 September 2023, 09:47 AM.


    • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
      These figures are like a decade old, lol. Its a lot higher now, its actually Windows thats losing out.
      Nice joke. On Steam Mac dropped even below Linux share.


      • Originally posted by bple2137 View Post
        I wasn't talking about feature for you as a user, I was talking about feature for an app developer.
        xdotool and AutoHotkey are apps.

        Scripts execute via an app.

        Scripts and Macros that enable the power user to automate his workflows and work smart, not hard.

        Those are all apps.

        There's nothing "ancient" about any of them.

        Originally posted by bple2137 View Post
        Oh and if we're on mocking ourselves like we were 5 years old, I can do that too: oh, look I'm a power user and I need to make my auto-clicker go brrrrr, but it needs to be provided easily by exposing every piece of information about every client to every other client. It's like in good old days or it's garbage.
        How would exposing my window positions to malware affect security? This is pure hysteria and "privacy" bullshit.

        And secondly, don't run malware then. Skill issue.


        • Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
          I'm very much a Wayland advocate and just about everything I run on it works well, but X11 is not dead and so long as there is popular software that doesn't support it, it won't die.
          We can only officially regard X11 as dead when the average desktop user can uninstall it and not notice it is gone.
          Xorg upstream is dead (anyone can easily confirm that by checking the xserver Git history) and can be uninstalled without most Fedora users noticing it's gone. X clients will be supported on Wayland forever via Xwayland.


          • Originally posted by mrg666 View Post
            Is there something stopping you from using X11? I can help if you need help with installation or usage.
            I'm already using it?

            Doesn't mean I won't flame Crapland in the meantime.

            What did I say earlier? Ah yes, Crapland proponents like to stay ignorant. Well I like to burst their bubbles.


            • Originally posted by Grinness View Post
              Have you tried :
              Generic command-line automation tool (no X!). Contribute to ReimuNotMoe/ydotool development by creating an account on GitHub.

              It requires root privileges
              Looks interesting, although it does require root, but what about window positions though.


              • Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                There is a problem

                Opengl has to be deprecated, such as all software based on opengl. Opengl is implicit sync based on. Zink is just a wrapper.


                • For less input latency and less overhead, I still prefer Xorg with no compositors

                  The problem with Wayland for me is the forced composition which adds overhead and input latency compared to using Xorg with no compositors

                  So using Xorg with no compositors has less overhead and less input latency than Wayland

                  And I dont have to play games in fullscreen when using Xorg with no compositors

                  So switching from using Xorg with no compositors to Wayland would be a downgrade for me


                  • Originally posted by MorrisS. View Post
                    Opengl has to be deprecated, such as all software based on opengl. Opengl is implicit sync based on. Zink is just a wrapper.
                    Just because Opengl has been deprecated it does not mean the Zink developer would not find issue with way explicit sync is done in Vulkan. Remember Zink is still a Vulkan application and it having performance problem here due to means to do particular optimizations using Vulkan explicit sync in fact Vulkan explicit sync forbids those optimizations.


                    • Originally posted by CHECK_12345 View Post
                      The problem with Wayland for me is the forced composition which adds overhead and input latency compared to using Xorg with no compositors
                      There is a problem here.
                      A considerable amount of people assume Wayland isn’t particularly suitable for gaming, usually because you can’t turn off the compositor. This post will challenge that assumption and see how the current state of gaming on Wayland is, with a focus on KWin, KDEs compositor.

                      We do not have these tests after tearing allowed came option/official feature under KDE.

                      So there is no current evidence to support you claim that Xorg with no compositors is faster than KDE wayland these days. This old evidence does highly suggest the input latency today could be exactly the same and all the difference was that KDE was by default forbidding tearing. Reality someone need to rerun those 2021 tests with the new compositors and see where we in fact land.