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KDE On Wayland: "The Biggest Thing Needed Now Is Adoption By 3rd Party Apps"

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  • #91
    And there’s a chance we might port KWin to use wlroots in the future.
    With all the drama around the KwinFT fork from Roman that does exactly this, is that a hint from Nate that KwinFT and Kwin devs might join forces on that task in the future?

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    • #92
      Originally posted by kiffmet View Post
      Btw, it makes sense that wlroots doesn't ship with a GUI for input and output configuration. It's against the scope and purpose of the project to pull in a specific UI-toolkit as dependency.
      I meant config files. Most Wayland compositors don't even have a concept of system wide configuration, it's all in your $HOME/.config god knows where.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by avis View Post
        • there's no guarantee your wlroot based WM will start $HOME/.config/autostart/*.desktop stuff
        which just sucks.
        There are no such guarantee with x11 either, a lot of window managers and some desktop environments doesn't give a flying fornication about the xdg specs either, specially not the autostart mechanics.

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        • #94
          We've heard the argument of Wayland leading to fragmentation multiple times, because of missing standards and yada yada. I think thats hilarious becauce it's just the same in X11, even if we just consider x.org X11. You want examples? See Clipboard or Systray. There is just no standard way of achieving either of those on X11, so solutions are badly fragmented across DEs. There is lots of this stuff in X11 land. The efforts for many of those common tasks in a Wayland world are now laid out in Wayland protocols, XDG portals and so on and many of those things are much more streamlined in the new ecosystem. Sure there are still some obmissions in less common usecases, but we've come a long way.

          Wayland doesn't need to be a 1:1 copy of X11. It shouldn't. There is a lot of things to throw away even on some stuff that 'just work' on X11 when the quality or maintenance burden on crusty stuff is just to much. We're better of to let the people that are knowledgeable in these regards restart the efforts from scratch, or X11 legacy will go on to hamper linux desktop quality like it did for quite a while.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Weasel View Post
            Because they can't?

            Scripts are apps, so show me a macro script that can automate that for you as a power user. Like xdotool can on X11 or AutoHotkey can on Windows (name is misleading, it's far more than just hotkeys).

            Just because YOU don't automate your workflow and like to repeat your shit instead of working smart, doesn't mean other power users don't.

            I am so sick of people who just browse the web and play games and call that a "desktop PC" and "works just fine for me!!!".

            So how tf can they "do just fine" when they legit cannot do this for a power user? LMAO.

            Keep burying your head in the sand, and being an ignorant, because you know if you refuse to believe such things exist, then sure Wayland is perfect. Pure ignorance.
            I wasn't talking about feature for you as a user, I was talking about feature for an app developer. On old platforms (like ancient Windows or X11), programs tended to use global coordinates for drawing interfaces. Your comment sounded like this is exactly what you miss in Wayland.

            Second thing is that Wayland, as sets of protocols, doesn't limit any sort of automation in any way, but it's up to compositors to provide their users with whatever features their respective devs feel are worth implementing. Stuff like https://github.com/atx/wtype or https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool exist. There are also protocols for wlroots (the library that all the power-user focused compositors are built on) that could potentially allow all sorts of automation, like this one here: https://wayland.app/protocols/wlr-fo...nt-unstable-v1

            Oh and if we're on mocking ourselves like we were 5 years old, I can do that too: oh, look I'm a power user and I need to make my auto-clicker go brrrrr, but it needs to be provided easily by exposing every piece of information about every client to every other client. It's like in good old days or it's garbage.

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            • #96
              "Many 3rd-party apps are already Wayland-native"
              Can someone name some of them? I'd like to try some real wayland native applications besides those benchmarks like glmark2

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              • #97
                Originally posted by ms178 View Post

                With all the drama around the KwinFT fork from Roman that does exactly this, is that a hint from Nate that KwinFT and Kwin devs might join forces on that task in the future?
                From what I've seen, I highly doubt that Roman or the Kwin devs would ever choose to work with one another again. Too much bad blood.

                That doesn't mean they won't work with wlroots, though.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by cloud strife View Post
                  "Many 3rd-party apps are already Wayland-native"
                  Can someone name some of them? I'd like to try some real wayland native applications besides those benchmarks like glmark2
                  Chrome/Firefox?

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by RejectModernity View Post
                    X11/Wayland devs: X11 is dead
                    GPU driver devs: X11 is dead
                    DE devs: X11 is dead
                    Brainlets posting on linux forums from their mom's basement: RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEE X11 IS NOT DEAD `xclock` IS NOT PORTED TO WAYLAND THEREFORE WAYLAND IS NOT READY AND 50 YEARS BEHIND
                    well, there is xclock..
                    then there is

                    Color calibration support
                    multiple screen support
                    VR support
                    screen recording and streaming support
                    nvidia support
                    remote application and ssh forwarding support
                    high fps support
                    not requiring a reboot because it crashes every 5 minutes support
                    mouse cursor support (it doesnt tear, but it does take 3 seconds to move)
                    actually being better than X11 in any way support

                    But hey, no one needs any of that right, so ditch X11 now and bet your house on writing wayland apps, because.....

                    reasons I guess.

                    How about. No. Maybe if/when android adopts it.

                    Last edited by mSparks; 18 September 2023, 11:17 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by mSparks View Post
                      How about. No. Maybe if/when android adopts it.
                      Very bad thing to say. Android on Chromeos has adopted wayland. So by your statement everyone should be using Wayland right....

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