Wayland Clients Can Now Survive Qt Wayland Crashes / Compositor Restarts

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Wayland Clients Can Now Survive Qt Wayland Crashes / Compositor Restarts

A change merged to Qt this week can allow for Wayland clients to survive compositor restarts, such as when the compositor crashes...

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Qt-Wayland-Compositor-Restart

[oiaohm]

Start to the end of the argument we need X11 server so we can restart the Windows Manager if something goes wrong.

[avis]

This is massive, this is welcomed, but God damn it I don't understand why each Wayland toolkit has to implement all these features again and again.

Why can't we have something akin to I don't know Win32 (xlib for X11) which all other toolkits can build upon and not reinvent the wheel all the f-ing time? Something which draws fonts, primitives, etc. etc. and is being accelerated at the same time, e.g. using OpenGL (ES), Vulkan, etc.? It's sad to see so much human resources being wasted.

And on the other hand we have absolutely the same situation in regard to Wayland compositors which reimplement a metric ton of features again and again. A nice neat idea of having/painting/presenting perfect frames (all good, I like it) turned into a nightmarish implementation scenario. I'm just rending the air, dismiss this comment as lunacy. The lunacy which doesn't exist in well established commercial OS'es such as Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android or even QNX.

[avis]

Start to the end of the argument we need X11 server so we can restart the Windows Manager if something goes wrong.

But we do unless you're OK with a single working rich Wayland environment which is Gnome - and that's more than 10 (!) years after Wayland was christened. OK, KDE is getting there but I last tried KDE under Wayland on an Intel iGPU three months ago and it was buggy and crashy as hell.

[archkde]

Start to the end of the argument we need X11 server so we can restart the Windows Manager if something goes wrong.

… without mentioning that if said X11 server crashes, the applications are gone too.

[murraytony]

I don't understand why each Wayland toolkit has to implement all these features again and again.

We are still in the "early days" of Wayland honestly. Discovering the problems and trying to find the best solutions. At least every single application doesn't have to implement this functionality, just a handful of toolkits.

[eagleoneraptor]

But we do unless you're OK with a single working rich Wayland environment which is Gnome - and that's more than 10 (!) years after Wayland was christened. OK, KDE is getting there but I last tried KDE under Wayland on an Intel iGPU three months ago and it was buggy and crashy as hell.

X11 has been here for 30+ years and still have problems adopting new tech and it's still buggy (sometimes I got cursor tearing and mouse wheel scroll events are listened by unfocused apps, which is annoying enough to use Wayland as daily driver).

If we are going to have 2 buggy things I prefer the more future proof stuff designed around the current modern Linux desktop graphic stack, without any legacy baggage from the '80s.

[dpeterc]

We are still in the "early days" of Wayland honestly. Discovering the problems and trying to find the best solutions. At least every single application doesn't have to implement this functionality, just a handful of toolkits.

You mean "early decades"?

[JPFSanders]

This is massive, this is welcomed, but God damn it I don't understand why each Wayland toolkit has to implement all these features again and again.

Because Wayland is a protocol, like VNC or RDP or TCP/IP, KDE implements a Wayland-protocol-compatible Wayland compositor

X11 is a protocol, X.org is an implementation of the X11 protocol, X.org comes with some tools you take for granted.

When discussing Wayland most people are confusing it with X.org. And I don't blame them, what we needed was both a X12 and a new X.org supporting X12 and X11.

What we got was X12 and KDE, Gnome, wlroots all acting as the new X.org. And XWayland which is great as it is agnostic.

The problem is that KDE and Gnome are not agnostic to the rest of the desktop tools/toolkits, they have their agendas and have nothing to do with each other nor are inclined to help the large Linux desktop ecosystem. KDE simply doesn't care about anything not KDE, but Gnome has very destructive tendencies due to their constant GTK shenanigans.

So yes, everybody gets to re-implements the wheel... badly, so with a bit of luck in a few more years we'd get something usable.

[holunder]

The problem is that KDE and Gnome are not agnostic to the rest of the desktop tools/toolkits, they have their agendas and have nothing to do with each other nor are inclined to help the large Linux desktop ecosystem. KDE simply doesn't care about anything not KDE, but Gnome has very destructive tendencies due to their constant GTK shenanigans.

I wanted to give you a like but this is untrue, KDE does care, unlike Gnome.