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Wayland Protocols 1.27 Brings Content Type Hinting, Idle Notification

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Steffo View Post
    So it took 7 years for this simple extension...
    It's a shame so few take developing for Wayland itself seriously.

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    • #22
      Shouldn't idle notification directly come from the operating system? Just asking.

      Why on earth from the display stack?

      This is duplicating microsoft's fallacies on windows where USB notifications come from the windows.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by ezst036 View Post

        It's a shame so few take developing for Wayland itself seriously.
        One of the things that harm Wayland adoption is that they sometimes take literal YEARS to merge simple protocols.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Steffo View Post
          So it took 7 years for this simple extension...
          But muh privacy. Quickly, revert it! This allows apps to know when you go afk, a privacy invasion, going against the Wayland manifesto!!!

          Imagine trusting your apps. Yikes. REVERT IT AT ONCE.

          Stop making Wayland reasonable, keep it the paranoid shitfuck it is.

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          • #25
            yeah, I too checked the KDE Wayland blocker page and it's not looking too optimistic. Pretty big ticket issues not yet resolved, some of them needing support in the protocol with little to no activity. I feel like Wayland needs one last giant push over the next year to really bring it home.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by aufkrawall View Post
              Most Vulkan apps run in fullscreen exclusive on Windows with e.g. OS audio volume overlay not visible, so DWM shouldn't steal noteworthy amounts of VRAM.
              That's not really how things work. Exclusive Mode doesn't stop DWM from needing to KEEP all the surfaces, it just lets it skip compositing them. Historically, the biggest beneift by FAR to Exclusive Fullscreen is it lets you just flip the screen for updates rather than having to blit it.

              (edit: to be clear, it WILL take the hit of losing those surfaces if there's enough demand on VRAM from an exclusive app, but a lot of that depends on the driver, and it may take a while to do so on APUs in particular).
              Last edited by arQon; 11 October 2022, 06:18 PM.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by funforums View Post

                Forced vsync? Are you using Nvidia?
                It wouldn't matter. By design, and for great gain in other areas, wayland will try to match vblank, such that every frame should be a "pixel perfect frame", meaning no half-rendered frames, tearing, etc. While some turn their nose up at this, there have been other developments to reduce the perceived "input lag" introduced by matching vsync in that pursuit. I don't have any personal experience with tweaking it, but Sway's max_render_time config allows you to force the compositor to wait until a configurable amount of time prior to the vblank before beginning to composite a frame. If this option were somehow perfectly optimized, you'd effectively have minimized input lag, while gaining all the benefits of frame-perfect rendering. I liken this behavior to the attempts made by OpenXR/OpenVR runtimes to predict vblank presentation timestamps, and sleep client applications until the last possible moment to get the most recent frame data possible.

                There's been a blog post passing around that features this, among other things X11/Wayland, written from the perspective of a long-time hold-out. Although it's circulation is likely gratuitous self-satisfaction from the wayland camp, it does a decent job of explaining the differences in core philosophy when it comes to frame timing, and even introduced me to a mitigating feature that I didn't know existed! - https://artemis.sh/2022/09/18/waylan...apologist.html

                For my personal use cases, the "feel" of the frame perfect rendering is very noticeable, and the relative simplicity of the system(s) allow me to both understand and tweak when necessary. I'm sure there's those out there with differing hardware configuration and differing use cases that may decide that X11 is still the thing for them due to this "feature?", but for me, the completely imperceptible input lag (I don't play CSGO) is a small price to pay for multi-head VRR, implementation simplicity, lack of any frame-timing artifacting, and a simple API that encourages most applications to simply behave like applications.

                While I'm in the same boat with disliking NVIDIA, and shrugging when I see someone buy their hardware with the pre-intent of using it on Linux, that's not what we're talking about here.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by mcoffin View Post
                  For my personal use cases, the "feel" of the frame perfect rendering is very noticeable.
                  It will be less noticeable once we move away from 60fps screens though. High refresh rate screens are everywhere now and my next screen sure as hell won't be 60hz.

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