Wayland 1.21 Alpha Finally Introduces High-Resolution Scroll Wheel Support

[Artim]

A while ago, I had a very lengthy discussion with birdie, our HDR expert, and he assured me HDR doesn't work at all on Linux. So you're saying he's wrong?

Ouch. Be careful what you say about HDR on Windows, 'cause last time I said something about it, I got a lenghty rant from HDR expert birdie. Bottom line was that it always works on Windows.

birdie is just an arrogant moron that thinks he knows everything and anything, but the only thing he's doing "right" is berating everybody and talking utter nonsense. Do yourself a favor and just block that moron. Sure, if you try hard enough HDR will work in spite of X11 and maybe even Wayland and this won't change until Collabora and other devs implement color management and HDR in Mutter and Co. And the story on Windows is obviously a hit or miss. Before Win11 it couldn't even handle non-HDR content when in an HDR mode properly...I think even iOS learned to handle that some years ago. The only things Windows does well is collecting data and going on everybody's nerves. And to make people think that there are no better options. Even if you say Linux has about the same amount of problems, at least you aren't paying a fortune for the privilege to get to see incompetence additionally to paying every day with your personal data.

[discordian]

Wayland is working perfectly well in pretty much any use case the average user will ever have. But of course you can wait decades for a "final working Wayland" version as this won't happen until Wayland has a replacement.

Copy paste is still very flaky, 3rd and more mouse buttons aren't supported. Screen/windows casting is missing or mostly broken. Apps go haywire if dragedd between monitors with different scale factors.

Granted, there is alot of blame to share between Protokoll, Window-Manager and apps. Planning a protocoll, and not starting with all existing features from x11 (and state-of-the desktops) at least as concept is something I won't ever comprehend.
It's close to being less annoying than X11, but it's a far cry if you look outside the "free desktop".

[Artim]

Copy paste is still very flaky, 3rd and more mouse buttons aren't supported. Screen/windows casting is missing or mostly broken. Apps go haywire if dragedd between monitors with different scale factors.

Very interesting. I'm using Wayland since back when Debian Buster(?) made it a default. Now I'm on Pop OS. I never had any issues with Copy&Paste. Also screen casting is working perfectly fine as long as the program uses Pipewire, obviously. For the others I can't say anything as I never used either.

Granted, there is alot of blame to share between Protokoll, Window-Manager and apps. Planning a protocoll, and not starting with all existing features from x11 (and state-of-the desktops) at least as concept is something I won't ever comprehend.
It's close to being less annoying than X11, but it's a far cry if you look outside the "free desktop".

The only thing Wayland (the protocol) doesn't handle yet is global shortcuts. At least I don't really know if any major feature that actually needs to be added to the protocol. What is missing is support for all the functionalities in the implementations. But since there is no counterpart for the universal and central X Server and since the DEs themselves have to come up with ways not only refactoring their systems to the completely different way Wayland works AND implement everything from X Server AND everything that was possible more or less in spite of X through some sketchy workarounds; while e.g. GNOME only really started that journey in like 2014, while all that is being done my many volunteers and some company, that actually looks really good.

Or do you know how many years Apple and MS put into their current system? Or like how many years it took Google to get the system for Android where it is today, while they probably just started from scratch so they didn't have to rebuild an already existing system

[discordian]

Very interesting. I'm using Wayland since back when Debian Buster(?) made it a default. Now I'm on Pop OS. I never had any issues with Copy&Paste. Also screen casting is working perfectly fine as long as the program uses Pipewire, obviously. For the others I can't say anything as I never used either.

Well, I been using it before Buster I think, kinda the only option if you have 2 monitors with different resolution (and scaling).
Copy-Paste is barely working between Apps, I usually copy back-forth between a text editior at that seems to work reliably.

Several Gnome Apps regularly crash if you copy (or drop) data into them, Terminal and Nautilus being the main culprit - but that happens under X11 aswell.

The only thing Wayland (the protocol) doesn't handle yet is global shortcuts. At least I don't really know if any major feature that actually needs to be added to the protocol. What is missing is support for all the functionalities in the implementations. But since there is no counterpart for the universal and central X Server and since the DEs themselves have to come up with ways not only refactoring their systems to the completely different way Wayland works AND implement everything from X Server AND everything that was possible more or less in spite of X through some sketchy workarounds; while e.g. GNOME only really started that journey in like 2014, while all that is being done my many volunteers and some company, that actually looks really good.

Debatable, Historically Siemens was first to push Wayland to their embedded appliances.
Looking good maybe, handling I disagree. Nautilus is a horrible POS, getting stuck often (ignores input), crashing aswell, search is taking forever sometimes, other times not showing the latest state. List view makes it almost impossible to drop a file in that directory, or open a terminal.

I use Gnome pretty much 24/7, and that kinda means its my best option, but that doesn't says alot really. Maybe is you arent doing heavy filesystem/terminal/IDE stuff with typically multiple of them open its fine.
Most annoying thing is that you always get a barrage of comments like "Its great" everytime you bring this or the general sluggishness up.
Wonder how many have previously slandered Enlightenment are now cheering for GTK4 finally having a Scene Graph.

Or do you know how many years Apple and MS put into their current system? Or like how many years it took Google to get the system for Android where it is today, while they probably just started from scratch so they didn't have to rebuild an already existing system

So, how many years are left to get a usable? Damn Windows XP worked better then this

[Artim]

Well, I been using it before Buster I think, kinda the only option if you have 2 monitors with different resolution (and scaling).
Copy-Paste is barely working between Apps, I usually copy back-forth between a text editior at that seems to work reliably.

Several Gnome Apps regularly crash if you copy (or drop) data into them, Terminal and Nautilus being the main culprit - but that happens under X11 aswell.

I can not agree with this. Never had any problems with copy&paste, especially not with terminal and nautilus. And besides a very short excourse to KDE I've never used anything else than Gnome. So no idea what you're talking about.

Debatable, Historically Siemens was first to push Wayland to their embedded appliances.
Looking good maybe, handling I disagree. Nautilus is a horrible POS, getting stuck often (ignores input), crashing aswell, search is taking forever sometimes, other times not showing the latest state. List view makes it almost impossible to drop a file in that directory, or open a terminal.

I do agree with Nautilus sometimes being a bit slower than I want it to be, but that can have very good reasons on our setups. I've also seen that it didn't show the latest version of a file, but I thought that was the fault of rclone since I only have issues in combination with it. But the only real problems I have with Nautilus is that it's barely customizable and the defaults are just terrible (e.g. no way to force it to show last edited time stamp in a proper way). But never had any issues opening the terminal from there or crashing or being actually stuck (more than the Windows File Explorer).

I use Gnome pretty much 24/7, and that kinda means its my best option, but that doesn't says alot really. Maybe is you arent doing heavy filesystem/terminal/IDE stuff with typically multiple of them open its fine.
Most annoying thing is that you always get a barrage of comments like "Its great" everytime you bring this or the general sluggishness up.
Wonder how many have previously slandered Enlightenment are now cheering for GTK4 finally having a Scene Graph.

It's true that I do not do any IDE stuff, but I use the terminal (or at the moment the new Console) quite a lot, even though I rarely open it from Nautilus as it would take me longer to find the right directory with it and open Terminal from there instead of just going to the proper directory from the Terminal itself. But even for my quite edge use cases it never failed me completely, even though I very often wished it was much more adaptable to what I would like to do.

So, how many years are left to get a usable? Damn Windows XP worked better then this

Define usable. And simply stating XP worked better is utter nonsense. For me it is actually is very usable. Sure, there are some minor annoyances like no global shortcuts and having an oddly gigantic mouse cursor when forcing QT apps to use Wayland, but that's about it. Sure it would be nice if apps like Zoom would finally make use of Pipewire, but then it's all in all a little piece of shit so who's surprised. Plus you can always just use it in a browser and you have no problem with screensharing. Of course as long as the browser uses Pipewire.

If I had to pick an actual annoyance with Desktop Linux it would rather be the terrible support of Hardware accelerated Videos, especially in Browsers. And general disinterest of support by some Companies. If you see how well rclone works with various cloud storage providers, you start to wonder what the fuck many of the companies offering cloud storage are doing all day when they don't even try to bring a client to Linux, just as an example. But you can find bigger or a little less big problems with any OS. The question is what price are you paying for them, in money, personal data and time to circumvent them.

[Quackdoc]

A while ago, I had a very lengthy discussion with birdie, our HDR expert, and he assured me HDR doesn't work at all on Linux. So you're saying he's wrong?

not sure when that was, but will linux does support HDR, it's a very limited number of uses. either specialized hardware, or the stars aligning. do display server has support for HDR. so you need an app that can use DRM directly, you also need bother userland and kernel drivers that support HDR.

that being said, Im not sure how long ago support was actually added, so meh

[Artim]

that being said, Im not sure how long ago support was actually added, so meh

Who says it has? As already mentioned, while it's possible to use in spite of X it's still in the works for Mutter. At least I haven't heard anything about it since the article by Collabora in November 2020.

[arun54321]

Copy paste works fine on gnome Wayland. Never had issues with that. Nautilus copy paste also working fine. Are you using buggy DE aka KDE?

[Quackdoc]

Who says it has? As already mentioned, while it's possible to use in spite of X it's still in the works for Mutter. At least I haven't heard anything about it since the article by Collabora in November 2020.

unfortunately, we won't get any decent HDR until wayland protocols get support, and when that happens wlroots (sway) based will likely be the first to implement it thats not weston

then ofc you have the fools saying that changing the bit depth is all you need xD

[Artim]

unfortunately, we won't get any decent HDR until wayland protocols get support, and when that happens wlroots (sway) based will likely be the first to implement it thats not weston

then ofc you have the fools saying that changing the bit depth is all you need xD

Wow. You really need to learn how to read...

First, that's nothing Wayland (the protocol) needs to support. It has been written in a way that it can transport pretty much anything. That's something the Compositors will need to support. Second, something like wlroots will actually be the last to ever support HDR and Color Management. GNOME is backed up by Red Hat and Collabora, they are working on implementing it into Mutter already for about one and a half year. Which company, that has the money to employ people knowing their way around color theories and sciences, backs up wlroots? Third, nobody, absolutely nobody was talking about Weston. Why should they?

And fourth: where on earth did I ever say changing bit depth was enough to achieve all of this? I very explicitly said that the work on HDR is being combined with the work on color management since both are needed to work in real life situations. Neither of them are just "changing the bit depth".
If you're too stupid to read, just leave!