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GNOME's Wayland Session Shows Potential For Better Battery Life Than With X.Org

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  • CochainComplex
    replied
    Nice, this one does not escalade. It seems tide has turned. This is not meant in a provocative way - Rather a hint that Wayland might gain broader acceptance in the Linux world.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by wooque View Post
    Benchmark tells to me that Xorg will have better battery life.
    I see much lower minimal consumption in Xorg (8.8W Wayland vs 4.8W Xorg), which means system under Xorg achieves lower power states and does more aggressive power savings, which will more realistically translate to real world usage as people usually don't run full load benchmarks on battery but do much lighter tasks, such as web browsing where there are lot of idle time.
    Really I would say you are attempting to use data past what it can in fact tell you here. Same problem applies here that was benchmarks with quite bit of load all the time so these number don't line up to light task benchmarks. So it was kind of odd that Xorg was dropping down to 4.8 for split seconds. That could be linked to why Xorg was 3 Watt higher. Was X.org stalling for some reason to trigger the 4.8 watts?

    High load benchmarks cannot really be used to draw lines that well for light load benchmarks.

    The numbers say more investigation required to find out what those 4.8W Xorg are about. Are they are optimisation missing from the Wayland side or are they a side effect of some X11 Xorg issue causing processing stalls.

    Remember the average was 3 watts lower. Yes something stalling and needing to be catch up on it self in data processing over and over again can end up being heavier in power usage due to pushing cpu/gpu clocks higher into less power effective speeds. This kind of fun issue gives a nice little false flag of power effectiveness when what you are looking at is a symptom of power inefficiency caused by invalid stalling.

    So we need some light load benchmarks like 100 percent idle for 5 mins.

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  • ddriver
    replied
    Originally posted by wooque View Post
    Benchmark tells to me that Xorg will have better battery life.
    I see much lower minimal consumption in Xorg (8.8W Wayland vs 4.8W Xorg), which means system under Xorg achieves lower power states and does more aggressive power savings, which will more realistically translate to real world usage as people usually don't run full load benchmarks on battery but do much lighter tasks, such as web browsing where there are lot of idle time.
    Lol, that's just noise with no statistical significance. Wayland has better power efficiency, further demonstrated by the tangibly lower temps as well.

    My guess is wayland has a higher minimum event loop cycle, so it doesn't get as low in the few best case scenarios, but is still nevertheless significantly better when there's actual work to be done.

    Leave a comment:


  • wooque
    replied
    Benchmark tells to me that Xorg will have better battery life.
    I see much lower minimal consumption in Xorg (8.8W Wayland vs 4.8W Xorg), which means system under Xorg achieves lower power states and does more aggressive power savings, which will more realistically translate to real world usage as people usually don't run full load benchmarks on battery but do much lighter tasks, such as web browsing where there are lot of idle time.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    I know what X11 SSH forwarding is but there is no equivalent for Wayland and presumably there can't and won't be one. But ultimately SSH is the means, not the end; the end in the question was remote display and AFAIK on Wayland that can only be achieved through VNC, RDP, waypipe or something similar.
    waypipe was built to be equivalent for X11 SSH forwarding for Wayland and in fact work right. Waypipe starts from a Wayland core developer work on network transparency for wayland..

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...k-Transparency
    Yes this 2016 thing of wayland over wire is simple to miss. Yes Waypipe is direct descendant of "Wayland Over Wire".

    So the reality of your can't and won't be one is not in fact true. There is one its name Waypipe and was first called "Wayland Over Wire"

    https://arcan-fe.com/2018/11/16/the-...sparency-myth/
    The hard reality is less and less X11 applications in fact work by X11 SSH forwarding. Yes more and more modern X11 applications you have to use Xpra

    https://github.com/Xpra-org/xpra/blo...sage/OpenGL.md
    Welcome to the fun. Yes where you end up running Xwayland to run X11 application to you can sent to remote over network.

    The reality is X11 network transparency basically failure.

    Waypipe is network transparency with client and server side for wayland and if you want X11 working with modern applications you will need to be using Xpra to have client and server side with X11 as well.

    Funny right people idea about wayland network transparency is wrong. Fun part network transparency did not need to be coded in the wayland protocol. Yes the first developer who did "wayland over wire" noticed that wayland protocol perfectly fine to use network transpancy just with a few handling things. Yes those few handling things you have to-do so modern X11 applications work over network as well.

    Wayland over network and X11 over network with modern applications is bugger all difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • rastersoft
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post

    I know what X11 SSH forwarding is but there is no equivalent for Wayland and presumably there can't and won't be one. But ultimately SSH is the means, not the end; the end in the question was remote display and AFAIK on Wayland that can only be achieved through VNC, RDP, waypipe or something similar.
    It does exist: Waypipe

    https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mstoeckl/waypipe

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    That no the closest thing to ssh X11 forwarding is waypipe and its not VNC or RDP.

    There are 3 basic options at this stage. With KDE developers working on means to restart wayland compositors without applications stopping in time it may be possible to transfer application from running local to running by VNC/RDP/waypipe or any new solution and back.
    I know what X11 SSH forwarding is but there is no equivalent for Wayland and presumably there can't and won't be one. But ultimately SSH is the means, not the end; the end in the question was remote display and AFAIK on Wayland that can only be achieved through VNC, RDP, waypipe or something similar.

    Leave a comment:


  • Azrael5
    replied
    Wayalnd is more efficient than xorg, this explain the less power consumption. Pure wayland makes the same operation with less steps. Moreover, the lower power consumption, the more hardware lifespan and the lower energy costs.
    The best would be to compare a pure wayland Os with a pure Xorg Os of the same operating system typology without any Xwayland interference.
    Last edited by Azrael5; 23 December 2021, 05:12 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    I doesn't and it can't. If you want remote display with Wayland, you need to use VNC or RDP.
    That no the closest thing to ssh X11 forwarding is waypipe and its not VNC or RDP.

    There are 3 basic options at this stage. With KDE developers working on means to restart wayland compositors without applications stopping in time it may be possible to transfer application from running local to running by VNC/RDP/waypipe or any new solution and back.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
    does ssh offers a Waylandforwarding like x11forwarding feature?

    I believe Wayland doesn't have that masterpiece, very useful on servers..
    I doesn't and it can't. If you want remote display with Wayland, you need to use VNC or RDP.

    Leave a comment:

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