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Wayland 1.20 Alpha Released With Upstreamed FreeBSD Support, Autotools Nuked

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  • #11
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
    Will NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD support Wayland?
    Will Illumos or OpenIndiana support Wayland?
    Will any of the old proprietary Unixes like IBM AIX, HP-UX and Oracle Solaris support Wayland?
    Who cares?

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Volta View Post

      Who cares?
      Someone, certainly, did, or Wayland would not be "just" a protocol, what ended been a stupid idea for a graphic foundation build around linux and for linux, and the 13+ years that it took to be barely usable is a testimony of it. We still have, so far, 4 competing, evolving, and duplicated, in effort sense, implementations of the basic blocks, but I hope they will, eventually, decrease to 2, as I don't see Gnome devs merging their efforts with others. We will see.

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      • #13
        So, they really nuked Autotools from Wayland's orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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        • #14
          i hope they add colors management for colors blind like me

          and do more protocol for video playback and DPI scaling

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          • #15
            Originally posted by acobar View Post

            Someone, certainly, did, or Wayland would not be "just" a protocol, what ended been a stupid idea for a graphic foundation build around linux and for linux, and the 13+ years that it took to be barely usable is a testimony of it. We still have, so far, 4 competing, evolving, and duplicated, in effort sense, implementations of the basic blocks, but I hope they will, eventually, decrease to 2, as I don't see Gnome devs merging their efforts with others. We will see.
            Wayland is fine and it already eats 30 year old xorg for breakfast in some cases. However, I doubt anyone cares if mentioned systems support Wayland just like nobody cares if they support Steam or some other modern thing.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Aryma View Post
              i hope they add colors management for colors blind like me

              and do more protocol for video playback and DPI scaling
              The color management that they're going to be adding is going to be so that applications can advertise their color spaces so that they can be properly transformed into the screen's color space. One of the big benefits of that is that HDR and SDR applications should both look correct on an HDR display.

              Full screen color management really doesn't have anything to do with client to server/compositor communication so it's not going to be part of the protocol. Instead it'll be handled the same way it's currently handled, by the compositor with ICC color profiles.

              Originally posted by acobar View Post
              the 13+ years that it took to be barely usable is a testimony of it.
              It's currently very usable and Wayland hasn't been around for 13 years let alone 13+. It's initial commit was in 2008 but it's client protocol didn't hit 1.0 until October 2012 and it's server protocol didn't hit 1.0 until July 2013.

              Originally posted by acobar View Post
              We still have, so far, 4 competing, evolving, and duplicated, in effort sense, implementations of the basic blocks, but I hope they will, eventually, decrease to 2, as I don't see Gnome devs merging their efforts with others. We will see.
              I'd love to hear what work you feel is being duplicated four times over.
              Last edited by Myownfriend; 05 November 2021, 03:59 PM.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                Will NetBSD, OpenBSD, DragonFlyBSD support Wayland?
                Will Illumos or OpenIndiana support Wayland?
                Will any of the old proprietary Unixes like IBM AIX, HP-UX and Oracle Solaris support Wayland?
                https://www.sizeofvoid.org/posts/202...ayland-report/ The BSD based will be at some point.

                Illumos and OpenIndiana and Oracle Solaris all need major kernel work to add features you need for wayland compositors. Remember wayland compositors push a lot of things out of userspace and on to kernel features.

                IBM AIX and HP-UX are most likely in the same pit. Something to remember IBM AIX, HP-UX and Oracle Solaris have not been putting developers into x.org X11 on bare metal either. Will those be able to keep using current X11 servers in future who knows as well.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post

                  It's currently very usable and Wayland hasn't been around for 13 years let alone 13+. It's initial commit was in 2008 but it's client protocol didn't hit 1.0 until October 2012 and it's server protocol didn't hit 1.0 until July 2013.
                  So, following your thinking, many open source projects that took years to achieve 1.0 versions should also restart their lifespan? No, the right time to use is that of when the project begin and not some arbitrary version when the developer felt it was stable enough. Ask Linus and the developers of openssl as a short exercise.

                  Originally posted by Myownfriend View Post

                  I'd love to hear what work you feel is being duplicated four times over.
                  You mean all the duplicated effort done on GTK and Qt because all the complexity related to Wayland is not encapsulated on a central place and then, and again, wlroots, Weston, Mutter, KDE Plasma and whatnot having to create particular solutions to deal with the shortcomings in the references?

                  Sure as hell it should be better handled but, as I said in another post, the ship already sailed.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by acobar View Post
                    So, following your thinking, many open source projects that took years to achieve 1.0 versions should also restart their lifespan? No, the right time to use is that of when the project begin and not some arbitrary version when the developer felt it was stable enough. Ask Linus and the developers of openssl as a short exercise.
                    First I just want to correct my wording. The client API wasn't considered stable until 1.0 in 2012, and the server API wasn't considered stable until 1.2 in 2013. I made it sound like the client and server APIs were given separate version numbers.

                    Now on to your point. Your comparison between OpenSSL and Wayland doesn't really work. OpenSSL is a library that was initially created to implementing SSL, a protocol that was not only stable at the time but on version 3. Wayland is the actual protocol which I would argue is much more important to be in a stable state before any significant adoption and implementation is expected.

                    You're correct that the point that something reaches 1.0 shouldn't define it's lifespan but you can't act like the work adding support to compositors and toolkits was viable ever since it's first commit back in 2008.

                    Originally posted by acobar View Post
                    You mean all the duplicated effort done on GTK and Qt because all the complexity related to Wayland is not encapsulated on a central place
                    Like what though?

                    Originally posted by acobar View Post
                    and then, and again, wlroots, Weston, Mutter, KDE Plasma and whatnot having to create particular solutions to deal with the shortcomings in the references?
                    Again, you're not really listing any specifics, you're just listing the thing that needed to support Wayland. If that list, by itself, was supposed to be proof of a significant amount of repeat work then you're going to have to explain why they all existed before they supported Wayland. What part of their existence is proof that there's a significant amount of duplicate effort being forced on people because of Wayland? All of them had to explicitly support Xorg just as they have to support Wayland.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Volta View Post
                      Who cares?
                      X will never go away until they're supported. Common sense.

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