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XWayland 21.1.2 Nears With NVIDIA Hardware Acceleration

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    Furthermore it is tied to OpenGL, which means you can't use Vulkan with EGLStreams (or it is too difficult to), as it is designed for OpenGL and OpenGL only.
    GBM is not tied to any graphics API.
    That is not 100 percent right that GBM is not tied to any graphics API. GBM had AMD developers this is important for Vulkan support. GBM only appears not tied to any graphics API because of the broad development pool. AMD/DICE Mantle that was the precursor to Vulkan starts in 2013. Some of the features that Nvidia said about GBM that made no sense in 2014 come critical in 2016 with the release of Vulkan but those features were also required to implement Mantle that Nvidia was not implementing at the time. Yes this is not invented here syndrome hitting Nvidia they were not considering the APIs not being developed at Nvidia and that Nvidia would have to support them in future with the work on eglstreams.

    Please note that only what 1 of the 5 companies working in GBM brought to the table each one of the 5 brought something unique to the GBM design to support the graphics APIs they were working on internally. GBM is in fact tied to particular graphics API logic. Problem here Nvidia working solo so lacked diversity in targeted graphical APis. GBM having a broader graphics API support does not mean it in fact tied to having particular low level graphic API logic. Some of the issue that Nvidia was complaining about was that GBM does require particular graphics API logic. NIH is a powerful design ruining thing.

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  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    The hard reality is EGLStreams has turned out to be quite limited in functionality compared to GBM as well. There are quite a few cases of different things that don't work with Nvidia closed source with KDE and Gnome that are really EGLStreams API design limitations.

    Yes 2014 Nvidia said they think they could do better. Reality 6 years latter they could not. You have to think when you have 5 companies working on GBM and you are only 1 company there is a resource miss balance here. EGLStreams is a classic case of Not Invented here syndrome coming back to bite and yes it bit all the Linux users attempt to use Nvidia drivers.
    Furthermore it is tied to OpenGL, which means you can't use Vulkan with EGLStreams (or it is too difficult to), as it is designed for OpenGL and OpenGL only.
    GBM is not tied to any graphics API.

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

    It's NVIDIA's infamous "look, we will go open source but with ONE condition" thing.

    When NVIDIA announced initial Wayland support, there was a DRM hook and a KMS hook but no GBM.
    Instead, they somehow managed to standardize EGLStreams as the "ONE condition" part, on the grounds that NVIDIA hardware architecture works different from GBM, that GBM is mostly tied to Mesa and that NVIDIA would like to have additional information in the protocol.
    The hard reality is EGLStreams has turned out to be quite limited in functionality compared to GBM as well. There are quite a few cases of different things that don't work with Nvidia closed source with KDE and Gnome that are really EGLStreams API design limitations.

    Yes 2014 Nvidia said they think they could do better. Reality 6 years latter they could not. You have to think when you have 5 companies working on GBM and you are only 1 company there is a resource miss balance here. EGLStreams is a classic case of Not Invented here syndrome coming back to bite and yes it bit all the Linux users attempt to use Nvidia drivers.

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  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
    Why Nvidia needs this EGL thing? Why can't just do like everybody else?
    It's NVIDIA's infamous "look, we will go open source but with ONE condition" thing.

    When NVIDIA announced initial Wayland support, there was a DRM hook and a KMS hook but no GBM.
    Instead, they somehow managed to standardize EGLStreams as the "ONE condition" part, on the grounds that NVIDIA hardware architecture works different from GBM, that GBM is mostly tied to Mesa and that NVIDIA would like to have additional information in the protocol.

    Here is a slide from 2014:

    Leave a comment:


  • sabian2008
    replied
    Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

    There is a big ouch in that bug report.
    https://github.com/intel/minigbm

    Applications are not required to use the Mesa GBM library. Yes its valid to use minigbm from intel using application next to a application using mesagbm and have the kernel sort it out.

    GBM alternative discovery really should not be implemented in Mesa it really should be implemented in the kernel.
    Seems that the maintainers don't share your concerns.

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by kon14 View Post
    They're going to eventually. Their patches for external GBM support in Mesa have just been approved for merge.
    I hope their GBM-supporting drivers follow soon enough.
    There is a big ouch in that bug report.
    https://github.com/intel/minigbm

    Applications are not required to use the Mesa GBM library. Yes its valid to use minigbm from intel using application next to a application using mesagbm and have the kernel sort it out.

    GBM alternative discovery really should not be implemented in Mesa it really should be implemented in the kernel.

    Leave a comment:


  • CochainComplex
    replied
    Originally posted by discordian View Post
    Likely decades before my AMD Polaris ist working properly. Currenly it's enough top start a Wine Game to kill the kernel, even the time it did not immediatly crash i Had to Cut down max tdp to less than half to have it Run stable more than a few Minutes (works fine in Windows at full load).

    ​​​​​
    mesa or radeon driver? If you switch does it work then?

    Leave a comment:


  • kon14
    replied
    Originally posted by uid313 View Post
    Why Nvidia needs this EGL thing? Why can't just do like everybody else?
    They're going to eventually. Their patches for external GBM support in Mesa have just been approved for merge.
    I hope their GBM-supporting drivers follow soon enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • uid313
    replied
    Why Nvidia needs this EGL thing? Why can't just do like everybody else?

    Leave a comment:


  • discordian
    replied
    Likely decades before my AMD Polaris ist working properly. Currenly it's enough top start a Wine Game to kill the kernel, even the time it did not immediatly crash i Had to Cut down max tdp to less than half to have it Run stable more than a few Minutes (works fine in Windows at full load).

    ​​​​​

    Leave a comment:

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