Experimental Wayland Support For Wine Now Sees More Functionality Working

[RahulSundaram]

I'm not going to dig through years of forum posts to prove the point, but yes quite a few times around the time when Wayland was originally announced, with the rationalization that it was designed around how modern hardware worked and that X11 concepts like unredirection weren't necessary on Wayland.

From random folks or any of the actual Wayland developers? Because unredirection is a thing in Wayland too

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mutter-Unredirect-FS-Wayland

[JackLilhammers]

Playing a fast pace rhythm game on Xorg? Forget it.

Apparently you just forgot because I remembered people were playing fast paced FPS on Linux long before Wayland appeared

That said, more Wayland improvements and features. Yay!

[mbrf]

Let me just start out by stating the obvious; I really do not know much about specifics in all of this, but when Wayland was under development, I had a much better sense of how things tied together, and I only have a vague memory of it now.

In terms of performance, as far as I recall, before Wayland reached 1.0, a lot of work was put into chopping up X11 to make sense of it, to prepare for XWayland, and in doing so, the performance of X11 increased noticably, and iirc, the work that was done, also reduced tearing and... I can't recall what the black/grey space left when resizing and moving windows, is called... So performance between Wayland, XWayland, and X11 might not be big today, but I'd imagine it would be easier to see, if X11 in a pre-Wayland version, was compared to e.g. Weston.

Also, someone mentioned that there wouldn't be much, if any, difference in games, because they're full screen; but wine is also used for software that isn't run in full screen (but as you'll see below, I can't recall if this doesn't matter, because the X11-server within an XWayland window treats what it shows as full screen).

And if memory serves, each window running XWayland, runs its own X11-server - right? So each XWayland window, will require more resources than than a Wayland window - right? Or does that not matter because whatever is shown in an XWayland window, is treated as a full screen application by the X11-server within that window? I'd still imagine that the overhead per window would be larger for each XWayland window, than for each native Wayland window, but I have nothing to base that on.

My apologies if I make no sense. I'm extremely rusty, at best, in these matters.

[DRanged]

Also, someone mentioned that there wouldn't be much, if any, difference in games, because they're full screen; but wine is also used for software that isn't run in full screen (but as you'll see below, I can't recall if this doesn't matter, because the X11-server within an XWayland window treats what it shows as full screen).

Actually I game mostly windowed and not full screen. Got an 3440x1440 144Hz monitor So while playing I can reply to posts on Phoronix

[duby229]

Actually I game mostly windowed and not full screen. Got an 3440x1440 144Hz monitor So while playing I can reply to posts on Phoronix

If you're playing games on a multi-monitor setup then maximized windowed mode is the very best option. In waaay too many cases the only viable way to play certain games on these setups is with Wine in virtual desktop mode simply because the game doesn't have the settings for maximized windowed mode. It's one of many reasons why relying on in-game settings is stupid as all hell. Too many games simply don't have the in-game settings gamers need.

EDIT: OTOH, kwin -can- fullscreen any windowed application, so even if a game doesn't directly support maximized windowed mode, as long as it supports a standard windowed mode then in that case kwin can still fullscreen it.

[Luke_Wolf]

From random folks or any of the actual Wayland developers? Because unredirection is a thing in Wayland too

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mutter-Unredirect-FS-Wayland

Like I said... not digging through years of forum posts, but the Wayland/Xorg guys that were here... way back when Wayland was originally announced were making claims that Wayland should be faster than X11 for a variety of reasons. It's worth pointing out that what I'm going to call the "Wayland stack" to refer to Wayland, xdg-shell, etc and the concepts of how they integrate with the compositor that replaces the X11 Stack has changed pretty dramatically from when this was just a proof of concept with Weston not even implemented in any of the toolkits. However I'm also going to note that said performance claims only applied to end to end Wayland, not applications running on XWayland in a Wayland Environment.

[duby229]

This is true, though in return this doesn't make games run worse on Xorg (Or why would you want to play GPU demanding titles in windowed mode?). The current limitations of actual Wayland compositors however still do make the experience worse (except perhaps Sway, but it also has cursor lag and stutter issues). I'm curious how Gnome 40 will fare.

You'd want to run it in windowed mode because too many games have buggy ass modesetting on multi-monitor setups.

[muncrief]

One day Wayland will "just work" on everything like X does, and then I might consider switching to it (if I can still use XFCE). But until then, wow, it just seems like a never ending mess. And since it's already been in development for 9 or 10 years, I don't expect the "just works" stage to come very soon.

[DRanged]

If you're playing games on a multi-monitor setup then maximized windowed mode is the very best option. In waaay too many cases the only viable way to play certain games on these setups is with Wine in virtual desktop mode simply because the game doesn't have the settings for maximized windowed mode. It's one of many reasons why relying on in-game settings is stupid as all hell. Too many games simply don't have the in-game settings gamers need.

EDIT: OTOH, kwin -can- fullscreen any windowed application, so even if a game doesn't directly support maximized windowed mode, as long as it supports a standard windowed mode then in that case kwin can still fullscreen it.

I never said I was having a multi-monitor setup. Just having a ultrawide monitor.

[duby229]

If it was constantly done, it should be easy enough to provide a single reference. Where is it?

Bro, really? There are Hundreds of references... If you claim haven't heard nonsense performance claims about Wayland before today, then I have to assume your claim to have never heard them is a straight up lie...

A damn search would suffice...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Wayland+performance+vs+X11&t=newext&atb=v248-1&ia=web