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  • #81
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    That's bullshit.... Consistent look and feel was solved at least 15 years ago. It was Gnome that intentionally broke it.
    That's a completely re-tarded thing to say. Gnome updated its UI to be from this century while legacy desktops such as KDE failed to follow suit.

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    • #82
      Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
      Plus, SSD gives a desktop the ability to have trusted chrome elements on each window, which you'd think would fit with the "Security!" arguments for why Wayland is the way it is.
      There is no security when you execute untrusted programs. The argument that "trusted chrome elements" somehow matter is invalid.

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      • #83
        Originally posted by curfew View Post
        That's a completely re-tarded thing to say. Gnome updated its UI to be from this century while legacy desktops such as KDE failed to follow suit.
        And yet Gnome looks and feels far worse than it ever has... Oxymoron much? Plasma is the best looking and feeling DE in existence right now.

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        • #84
          Originally posted by curfew View Post
          There is no security when you execute untrusted programs. The argument that "trusted chrome elements" somehow matter is invalid.
          A Wayland app can pretend to have a privileged dialog box like a password entry box hovering over it if it is able to fake the system windeco, or hijack the function of windeco, such as producing a close or minimize button that appears to do so but actually uses shaped window calls to give the impression that there was a smaller, more privileged window hiding behind it.

          Trusted chrome elements are part of a toolbox of elements for making it harder for applications to impersonate each other.

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          • #85
            Originally posted by Shiba View Post

            I don't care if it's optional or not, this looks like sh*t and unless you intentionally plan to develop a desktop that looks like sh*t it is a big blocker ↓
            I don't see why the hell that should be a problem. A desktop environment's role is to launch graphical applications windows and display notifications. How windows looks doesn't even compare to a fart in the grand scheme of getting things done with a computer.

            Typical case of missing the forest for the trees.

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            • #86
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              Not in a Plasma X11 session. Theming is a disaster because -GNOME- keeps breaking it.
              Its not just gnome. Please take note that QT/KDE theming format is also not set in stone. Same with all the other toolkits.

              Its a very broad mess.

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              • #87
                Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                Its not just gnome. Please take note that QT/KDE theming format is also not set in stone. Same with all the other toolkits.

                Its a very broad mess.
                In what sense? Regarding Qt it's actually very straightforward: themes are implemented by programming; basically you have to roll your own complete "theme engine" in order to create a new theme. That's for the classic widgets. QML-based widgets have their own theming logic separate from classic widgets.
                Last edited by curfew; 19 February 2021, 11:59 PM.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by ssokolow View Post
                  A Wayland app can pretend to have a privileged dialog box like a password entry box hovering over it if it is able to fake the system windeco, or hijack the function of windeco, such as producing a close or minimize button that appears to do so but actually uses shaped window calls to give the impression that there was a smaller, more privileged window hiding behind it.
                  Now you're shifting goal posts from your own arguments, haha. Password dialogs have nothing to do with window borders, which was your original argument.

                  Stop being a re-tard, stop executing untrusted apps!

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by curfew View Post
                    In what sense? Regarding Qt it's actually very straightforward: themes are implemented by programming; basically you have to roll your own complete "theme engine" in order to create a new theme. That's for the classic widgets. QML-based widgets have their own theming logic separate from classic widgets.
                    Curfew is that straight forwards to make your own theme engine? No its not. Classic widgets with new versions of Qt things do change resulting in old Qt themes not working with new versions of Qt.

                    Having to code your own theming engine is not really useful if your objective is unified theming across the complete desktop. So you have to code a theme for Qt then for GTK then for Wxwidgets..... Then deal with the breakages caused by updates. End up with the nightmares where you have new and old applications using different versions of the toolkit that need different versions of the theme file.

                    I have done the horrible job of trying to get unified appearing on Linux desktop is really not fun.

                    https://stopthemingmy.app/
                    This from gnome developers where really powerful theme systems result in applications being not able to be used by end users also applies to Qt theming.

                    Lot of ways we need some form of really simple theme solution that application and end users can use without risking ruining their day. This would also require some smarts on mandated contrast differences between different elements.

                    Horrible as it sounds there is such thing as over kill. Most toolkits on Linux the theming system is over kill. Most users will only want to adjust a few colours to suit their vision better and be wanting consistency in appearance.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                      Curfew is that straight forwards to make your own theme engine? No its not. Classic widgets with new versions of Qt things do change resulting in old Qt themes not working with new versions of Qt.
                      Well, I didn't mean that it would be easy nor quick, but the process in itself is very clear. There is no ambiguity and the APIs are very stable.

                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                      Having to code your own theming engine is not really useful if your objective is unified theming across the complete desktop. So you have to code a theme for Qt then for GTK then for Wxwidgets..... Then deal with the breakages caused by updates.
                      Now I think you're getting lost. All toolkits have their own, unique theme engines. It doesn't matter if you're writing yet another or not. If your target is to achieve uniform theming across toolkits, then you should definitely write theme engines that make it possible.

                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                      End up with the nightmares where you have new and old applications using different versions of the toolkit that need different versions of the theme file.
                      This doesn't happen on classic Linux desktops because the libraries are shared. Not sure about those pesky flatpaks and snapchats and whatevers, though.

                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                      I have done the horrible job of trying to get unified appearing on Linux desktop is really not fun.
                      So?

                      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                      https://stopthemingmy.app/
                      This from gnome developers where really powerful theme systems result in applications being not able to be used by end users also applies to Qt theming.
                      That's some incoherent rambling, to be honest. Of course users must be allowed to theme their desktop and of course you're an idiot if you try to block that. The technical details on how theming is applied might be subject to discussion.

                      Personally I wouldn't mind being able to apply a custom stylesheet on a per-app basis, but still retaining the option of applying a global stylesheet as well. This is of course not a problem for the "GNOME community" nor end-users but actually something for the GTK devs to implement. So these pathetic people are barking at the wrong tree.

                      Blocking theming will of course also block attempts at unifying the look-and-feel of different toolkits, so I think you are trying to now make an argument both for and against the unification.

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