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Wayland 1.19 Released With Small Protocol Updates, Fixes

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  • Yofiel
    replied
    Originally posted by gfunk View Post
    Surely there is thousands of bugs and features that need to be implemented for Wayland? like screen casting/recording
    Screencasting is not the responsibility of Wayland. Wayland allows, but applications lack support. By the way, OBS from Flathub-beta is working perfectly, thanks toGeorges with DMA-BUF.

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  • paradroid
    replied
    So Wayland is still half baked, locks out nvidia for religious reasons and lacks tons of features? And the only pro argument is better security(which is not proven).
    Reminds me of Apple.

    Leave a comment:


  • ColdDistance
    replied
    Originally posted by middy
    i will never use amd again for my gpu. if i ever lose nvidia support on linux i would just go back to windows. amd burned me multiple times and i will never give them my money again. this is why i hope intel's dedicated gpu's don't suck because nvidia needs an actual competent competitor.
    I think you didn't use AMD Radeon since a long ago. Today the few virtual reality things that work on Linux have focused on RADV (Half-Life: Alyx and Microsoft Flight Simulator), so AMD. But I recognize two things I don't like from AMD:

    -Proprietary firmware.
    -Bad support for hardware encoding.

    Leave a comment:


  • rene
    replied
    but, ... does it finally support global hotkeys yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0l817ymu-s

    Leave a comment:


  • Weasel
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post
    GNOME/Mutter is "THE" wayland compositor.
    I'd rather go back to Windows than use that atrocity.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Lets go though this list.
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    1) Screen casting/recording
    2) Drag-n-drop
    3) Task panel
    4) Systray
    5) Basic window management (at least minimizing/maximizing/moving)
    6) Virtual desktops
    7) And other desktop features I cannot immediately recall.
    1 Screen casting/recording there is a question if that should in wayland at all because using libdrm you can directly screen capture as long as you have high enough privilege. So this does not need to be part of Wayland compositor at all so its a optional feature. There should more more direct libdrm screen capture solutions. Remember direct libdrm capture can be used generically against TTY, X11 and Wayland compositors.

    2 Drag-n-drop is implemented in Wayland protocol. There is a issue of X11 drag and drop compatibility but that is a different stack of hell completely. Issue with wayland and drag and drop is when you do a drag and drop between Xwayland client and a Wayland application and the reverse. Wayland application to Wayland application drag-n-drop works perfectly fine. There are only 8 different implementations of drag and drop inside X11 wayland protocol has 1. There is a lack of nice bridge from wayland 1 form of drag-n-drop to X11 8 different forms.

    3-6 not every X11 windows manager/DE implements so are in fact optional features.

    3 implementing a task panel does not need wayland protocol support. Putting cgroups around all applications to get sane map of what owns is path gnome and kde are going down for this.

    4 is not to be in the wayland protocol and it makes absolutely no sense to be in the Wayland protocol due to what already exists and would be just reinventing wheel for no good reason. https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Spe...sNotifierItem/ Yes StatusNotifierItem that uses DBUS. replaces the old X11 Systemtray interface that works fine with wayland solutions as well. The old X11 Systemtray interface had a habit of leaving behind icons after applications crashed and worst connecting wrong icon to wrong application at times. Basically X11 implementation of systray is totally bust and has been superseded by something genetic using dbus that works with Wayland and X11 desktop solutions.

    5 You need more details what you mean because even weston has this one.

    6 Virtual desktops again does not need wayland protocol support. X11 protocol does not in fact support virtual desktop there is a horrible hack in windows manager that makes them exist.






    Leave a comment:


  • Alexmitter
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    Wayland has been implemented/drafted such a way all compositors need to have literally tens of thousands of lines of code (re)implementing the same features which other sane DE/OSes implement out of the box as APIs.
    BS, the core code is shared in libwayland, there is also weston as a clean implementation. That mess is only caused by desktop repurposing their existing X11 compositor into a wayland display server what of course results in more work.

    Then of course there is wlroots that most of the smaller wayland desktops use as its base.


    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    Wayland should have come either with some sort of default compositor which implements or provides APIs for:

    1) Screen casting/recording
    2) Drag-n-drop
    3) Task panel
    4) Systray
    5) Basic window management (at least minimizing/maximizing/moving)
    6) Virtual desktops
    7) And other desktop features I cannot immediately recall.
    Weston


    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    And I'm not even talking about accelerated graphics/text drawing APIs which again are provided by Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS and even a hobbyist(!) project Haiku out of the box.
    That is a Toolkit job on all of those platforms, no one uses X11 text drawing calls or even its 2D software drawing capabilities since the early 90s. And by now, all major toolkits on Linux are accelerated.

    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    I hate both Gnome and KDE 5 vehemently (the only working/rich DEs for Wayland so far). Both environments are brain-damaged in one way or another and both have decided that they must be universal which means they must work on mobile and desktop, only they put mobile first and copied the absolute worst features of Windows 8 UI (flat, undiscoverable UI), Windows 10 (tons of white space, low contrast UI) and new MacOS releases (grey low-contrast icons). My eyes are bleeding when I see them in action. I don't want to discover UI features. I don't want to painfully discern 20 grey small icons which all look the same. Are we back in the age of 3bit palettes or what?
    You hate everything, nothing new.

    Leave a comment:


  • jacob
    replied
    Originally posted by birdie View Post
    All I keep hearing is compositor needs to implement this and that and all the same crap over and over again. Again, every successful DE or OS that ever existed has implemented rich APIs which allows developers to use it/code for it with as few lines of code as possible. Wayland has been implemented/drafted such a way all compositors need to have literally tens of thousands of lines of code (re)implementing the same features which other sane DE/OSes implement out of the box as APIs. Fuck this madness, sorry.

    Wayland should have come either with some sort of default compositor which implements or provides APIs for:

    1) Screen casting/recording
    2) Drag-n-drop
    3) Task panel
    4) Systray
    5) Basic window management (at least minimizing/maximizing/moving)
    6) Virtual desktops
    7) And other desktop features I cannot immediately recall.

    or just not exist in the first place.

    And I'm not even talking about accelerated graphics/text drawing APIs which again are provided by Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS and even a hobbyist(!) project Haiku out of the box.

    Again, I hate both Gnome and KDE 5 vehemently (the only working/rich DEs for Wayland so far). Both environments are brain-damaged in one way or another and both have decided that they must be universal which means they must work on mobile and desktop, only they put mobile first and copied the absolute worst features of Windows 8 UI (flat, undiscoverable UI), Windows 10 (tons of white space, low contrast UI) and new MacOS releases (grey low-contrast icons). My eyes are bleeding when I see them in action. I don't want to discover UI features. I don't want to painfully discern 20 grey small icons which all look the same. Are we back in the age of 3bit palettes or what?
    All these DEs/OSes implement ONE desktop manager/window manager/compositor and no provision is made to support any alternative ones at all. In Wayland the compositor is the entire windowing system (think X server + compositor + window manager). For some reason people seem to believe that implementing it "should" be easy, quick and within reach of a single hobbyist doing it in his spare time. They say that many things shoud somehow be provider "by Wayland" while they don't understand that there is no piece of software anywhere called "wayland", just like there is no program called "TCP/IP".

    GNOME/Mutter is "THE" wayland compositor. It has long had all those features. But unlike everything including Haiku, with Wayland, for some reason dozens of people insist on implementing yet-another half assed hobby compositor and then they whine because the system is complex and they need to write a lot of code for it to do what it should.

    Leave a comment:


  • birdie
    replied
    All I keep hearing is compositor needs to implement this and that and all the same crap over and over again. Again, every successful DE or OS that ever existed has implemented rich APIs which allows developers to use it/code for it with as few lines of code as possible. Wayland has been implemented/drafted such a way all compositors need to have literally tens of thousands of lines of code (re)implementing the same features which other sane DE/OSes implement out of the box as APIs. Fuck this madness, sorry.

    Wayland should have come either with some sort of default compositor which implements or provides APIs for:

    1) Screen casting/recording
    2) Drag-n-drop
    3) Task panel
    4) Systray
    5) Basic window management (at least minimizing/maximizing/moving)
    6) Virtual desktops
    7) And other desktop features I cannot immediately recall.

    or just not exist in the first place.

    And I'm not even talking about accelerated graphics/text drawing APIs which again are provided by Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS and even a hobbyist(!) project Haiku out of the box.

    Again, I hate both Gnome and KDE 5 vehemently (the only working/rich DEs for Wayland so far). Both environments are brain-damaged in one way or another and both have decided that they must be universal which means they must work on mobile and desktop, only they put mobile first and copied the absolute worst features of Windows 8 UI (flat, undiscoverable UI), Windows 10 (tons of white space, low contrast UI) and new MacOS releases (grey low-contrast icons). My eyes are bleeding when I see them in action. I don't want to discover UI features. I don't want to painfully discern 20 grey small icons which all look the same. Are we back in the age of 3bit palettes or what?

    Leave a comment:


  • CochainComplex
    replied
    Code:
    for [wayland, nvidia, x11, amd, opensourcedriver, mesa] in headline
     print("x11 is great")
     print("nvidia just works")
     if ($USER == birdie)
      print("Windows is better anyway")
     endif
     print("wayland is not stable")
     print("never amd again")
     print("wayland is not a compositor")
     print("AMD has superb OS Driver")
     print("blob")
     print("Multimonitor support broken")
     print("tear free")
     print("what mesa and kernel version ?")
     print((quote("F*** you Nvidia","Linus Torvalds", htmlLink))
     print("no freesync")
    end
    Last edited by CochainComplex; 28 January 2021, 06:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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