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There's Finally An Experimental Driver For Native Wayland Support Within Wine

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  • #31
    I was told it was almost impossible for Wine to support Wayland because the Win32 API likes to absolutely position windows on the screen (like menus) which isn't possible in Wayland anymore. How did they fix that?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

      Interested in all the work the open source consulting firm Collabora are doing with Valve to help improve Linux gaming? We've got you covered.


      The reality here is like it or not collabora is working with Valve. Valve is getting very annoyed with Nividia that they are not releasing Xwayland stuff. Valve want gamescope so they can sandbox games better and give users better experiences this need either Wayland or Xwayland support in the game/wine.

      Sorry this is not hate ix900. This is the reality. Reason why the Wayland work on wine has been brought forwards is Nvidia not doing Xwayland drivers.

      So if someone thinks this is wasting development time doing a Wayland back end for wine because the X11 backend was good enough they really should be told who is to blame and why its happening. This is funded development companies don't fund this stuff without reason.
      So I just watched the video (which is great btw) but its not at all related to the whole NVidia problem. I mean the other guy is right, you have this irrational hatred of NVidia which means that you not only blame NVidia for everything but you also bring it up in completely unrelated points (like this video).

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      • #33
        Originally posted by skerit View Post
        I was told it was almost impossible for Wine to support Wayland because the Win32 API likes to absolutely position windows on the screen (like menus) which isn't possible in Wayland anymore. How did they fix that?
        It is mentioned in the mailing list / gitlab:
        Since Wayland's window model is not based on a single flat 2D co-ordinate space, as X11's was, the Wayland protocol doesn't allow applications to control their absolute position on the screen. For Win32 transient windows (menus, tooltips, etc) the driver tries to work around the lack of absolute positioning by "anchoring" them to an owning Wayland surface and treating them as subsurfaces of that owner. Screen coordinates for such windows are transformed to local coordinates relative to the owning surface, allowing correct placement through relative subsurface movement, which is supported by Wayland. By using heuristics to select the proper owning surface, this approach has led to very good results.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

          So I just watched the video (which is great btw) but its not at all related to the whole NVidia problem. I mean the other guy is right, you have this irrational hatred of NVidia which means that you not only blame NVidia for everything but you also bring it up in completely unrelated points (like this video).
          Hatred toward shit companies like nvidia is always rational (leeching on users wallets, closed source crap, no Wayland support). Furthermore, I remember there were compatibility problems with wine and AMD, because wine devs were using some nvidia hacks instead of generic implementation.
          Last edited by Volta; 16 December 2020, 07:39 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Charlie68 View Post
            I state that I often use the plasma-wayland session, which is undoubtedly the future, however I find it unbearable those who think that already today we should all use wayland, letting Xorg die. This post is another testament to the fact that Wayland is not ready for the transition yet, not because Wayland is not stable, but because there is still a lot of software that does not have stable support for Wayland yet and wine is the example. , but not the only one. This is an experimental driver only ...
            Wayland is super stable, but you have to use Gnome and Radeon of course. KDE is way behind, so you can blame KDE. You don't have to have native Wayland support right now to fully benefit from it. XWayland does the job. For example Assetto Corsa Competizione runs perfectly fine under Wayland (XWayland) in Steam with AMD graphic card. If it doesn't work with nvidia an only ugly thing to blame here is nvidia.
            Last edited by Volta; 16 December 2020, 07:36 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Volta View Post

              Hatred toward shit companies like nvidia is always rational (leeching on users wallets, closed source crap, no Wayland support). Furthermore, I remember there were compatibility problems with wine and AMD, because wine devs were using some nvidia hacks instead of generic implementation.
              Using the same logic pretty much every company falls in that bucket (including AMD/Intel and Microsoft who also contribute to the kernel).

              Also such an attitude is frankly immature and stupid since it doesn't get you anywhere.
              Last edited by mdedetrich; 16 December 2020, 07:45 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Volta View Post

                Wayland is super stable, but you have to use Gnome and Radeon of course. KDE is way behind, so you can blame KDE. You don't have to have native Wayland support right now to fully benefit from it. XWayland does the job. For example Assetto Corsa Competizione runs perfectly fine under Wayland (XWayland) in Steam with AMD graphic card. If it doesn't work with nvidia an only ugly thing to blame here is nvidia.
                Who wrote the opposite? I wrote that wayland is stable, but that there is still a lot of software that is not compatible with wayland yet and wine is an example. So the experience on wayland at the moment is still incomplete, what is it not you don't understand?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                  There is a point to bite the big one. Xwayland does in fact run most wine applications without a problem. Just is horrible slow for Nvidia users because it drops back to software rendering because Nvidia has not provided the libglnvd libraries required. There is very little software at this point that is not either have native Wayland or works Xwayland without a hitch other than Nvidia.


                  This is more a case of Nvidia being a jackass stalling the migration to Wayland by not providing what is need. Yes eglstreams is missing functionality that a Wayland compositor needs to work well. We would have migrated to wayland a lot faster if Nvidia had not been the dominate GPU vendor.
                  Not quite true, on an AMD a friend of mine had a lot of problems with some wine programs, this led him to return to Xorg.
                  I know of problems with remote access. I happened to use GTK2 and Qt4 applications that worked consuming a lot more resources, which may not be a problem on modern PCs, but on older PCs they are. I remember at least a couple of applications on Gnome that bothered me in wayland.
                  I am a Wayland supporter, but I also believe we need to be patient and give the developers of the many projects time to migrate, just think that Firefox has become Wayland native these days, Chrome is not yet. I don't understand the rush ... today we all have the opportunity to choose Xorg and Wayland and each one chooses according to their needs and experiences. There is no need for fanaticism or Xorg - Wayland warfare.

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                  • #39
                    Whether company Z doesn't support Wayland does not really matter. They will either join too late or never, either way Wayland is the future for Linux and that's the reality of it all. And this (Wine on Wayland) is the byproduct of what's going to make Wayland even more mainstream.

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                    • #40

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