There's Finally An Experimental Driver For Native Wayland Support Within Wine

[clouddrop]

I was told it was almost impossible for Wine to support Wayland because the Win32 API likes to absolutely position windows on the screen (like menus) which isn't possible in Wayland anymore. How did they fix that?

It is mentioned in the mailing list / gitlab:

Since Wayland's window model is not based on a single flat 2D co-ordinate space, as X11's was, the Wayland protocol doesn't allow applications to control their absolute position on the screen. For Win32 transient windows (menus, tooltips, etc) the driver tries to work around the lack of absolute positioning by "anchoring" them to an owning Wayland surface and treating them as subsurfaces of that owner. Screen coordinates for such windows are transformed to local coordinates relative to the owning surface, allowing correct placement through relative subsurface movement, which is supported by Wayland. By using heuristics to select the proper owning surface, this approach has led to very good results.

[mdedetrich]

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2020/11/collabora-give-an-overview-of-their-work-with-valve-at-the-linux-app-summit-2020

The reality here is like it or not collabora is working with Valve. Valve is getting very annoyed with Nividia that they are not releasing Xwayland stuff. Valve want gamescope so they can sandbox games better and give users better experiences this need either Wayland or Xwayland support in the game/wine.

Sorry this is not hate ix900. This is the reality. Reason why the Wayland work on wine has been brought forwards is Nvidia not doing Xwayland drivers.

So if someone thinks this is wasting development time doing a Wayland back end for wine because the X11 backend was good enough they really should be told who is to blame and why its happening. This is funded development companies don't fund this stuff without reason.

So I just watched the video (which is great btw) but its not at all related to the whole NVidia problem. I mean the other guy is right, you have this irrational hatred of NVidia which means that you not only blame NVidia for everything but you also bring it up in completely unrelated points (like this video).

[skerit]

I was told it was almost impossible for Wine to support Wayland because the Win32 API likes to absolutely position windows on the screen (like menus) which isn't possible in Wayland anymore. How did they fix that?

[oiaohm]

I state that I often use the plasma-wayland session, which is undoubtedly the future, however I find it unbearable those who think that already today we should all use wayland, letting Xorg die. This post is another testament to the fact that Wayland is not ready for the transition yet, not because Wayland is not stable, but because there is still a lot of software that does not have stable support for Wayland yet and wine is the example. , but not the only one. This is an experimental driver only ...

There is a point to bite the big one. Xwayland does in fact run most wine applications without a problem. Just is horrible slow for Nvidia users because it drops back to software rendering because Nvidia has not provided the libglnvd libraries required. There is very little software at this point that is not either have native Wayland or works Xwayland without a hitch other than Nvidia.


This is more a case of Nvidia being a jackass stalling the migration to Wayland by not providing what is need. Yes eglstreams is missing functionality that a Wayland compositor needs to work well. We would have migrated to wayland a lot faster if Nvidia had not been the dominate GPU vendor.

[oiaohm]

You can't blame NVidia for this, its the game developers that released their games in a broken state and then didn't fix it (which happens quite commonly). With Vullkan this at least isn't possible, because unlike OpenGL it doesn't have a concept of warnings, if you don't use the Vulkan API correctly than it will just refuse to run so it forces to game devs to code the games properly.

This is a mixed bag. Nvidia supported games have used Opengl incorrect it also does not help that some of the documentation Nvidia wrote on how to use opengl was also wrong. Also AMD and ATI and Intel has also released some wrong documentation on how to use Opengl if you are game developer who follows the wrong documentation your screwed. So its wrong to put it all on the game developers head there have been multi levels of screw ups.

Vulkan has the layers system designed in to deal with applications doing the wrong thing in a generic way this is another thing Opengl is missing.

Nvidia's driver detects certain games on runtime according to their executable signature and then hot patches the game so it runs correctly.

This here is a long term problem. No one bothered with opengl or dx to develop a generic system to deal with these nightmares. This is where vulkan is different with layers. So with Vulkan distributor like valve can directly deal with the problem. This is also some of Valve backing of Zink is so they can directly deal with problems and not depend on the blessing of some video card vendor for the fix. Basically there is a problem with Nvidia solution games not blessed by Nvidia who followed Nvidia incorrect documentation are basically screwed over. Same goes with AMD and Intel as well.

Its really simple to forgot with games in a lot of cases we have 3 parties.

Video card vendor, Game developer and the Distributor. Video card vendor can patch their drivers, Game creator can patch the source code of game and fix it. Where does this leave the distributor who is selling the games to customers. Valve is Distributor in most cases. Vulkan layer system suites distributors so they can patch a vulkan game doing something wrong with a vulkan layer without the blessing of video card vendor or game developer.

There is serous part of the customer base for Nvidia with games that Nvidia is pissing off by not providing what they need or want. Its really important to miss the Distributor who provided games to users is who Nvidia missing what they want to-do. Yes what distributors want todo is be able to provide custom patch work around to badly made games so they can keep on selling them. Yes custom patches without having to beg video card vendors to-do it..

[Charlie68]

I state that I often use the plasma-wayland session, which is undoubtedly the future, however I find it unbearable those who think that already today we should all use wayland, letting Xorg die. This post is another testament to the fact that Wayland is not ready for the transition yet, not because Wayland is not stable, but because there is still a lot of software that does not have stable support for Wayland yet and wine is the example. , but not the only one. This is an experimental driver only ...

[mdedetrich]

AMD had a bad reputation for compatibility with games running on wine, but it wasn't their fault, it was actually nVidia's fault. Thank god for Vulkan wrappers, they help remove wined3d from the equation and things are running much, much better on all non-nVidia hardware now.

I'm just explaining it because it's where a lot of nVidia hate started...

Actually it was game developers faults for releasing broken games that didn't use OpenGL/DirectX correctly. Nvidia's driver detects certain games on runtime according to their executable signature and then hot patches the game so it runs correctly.

You can't blame NVidia for this, its the game developers that released their games in a broken state and then didn't fix it (which happens quite commonly). With Vullkan this at least isn't possible, because unlike OpenGL it doesn't have a concept of warnings, if you don't use the Vulkan API correctly than it will just refuse to run so it forces to game devs to code the games properly.

[dylanmtaylor]

Waste of time.

Maybe for you, but this is great, IMO. Less dependency on XWayland.

[Volta]

Waste of time.

Working on X is waste of time.

[NateHubbard]

Waste of time.

And why is that, exactly?