There's Finally An Experimental Driver For Native Wayland Support Within Wine

[oiaohm]

The constant need for Wayland extensions is because its scope is too narrow, it'll never be capable of supporting all the features a modern desktop compositor needs. It wasn't designed for modern desktops...

Core X11 protocol is insane narrow scope. X11 protocol is a stack of extensions as well. We forgot items like Xprint use to exist as X11 extensions.

Please note just like X11 wayland is design to add more extentions to the core.

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/tree/

Really like it or not duby229 part of Wayland design is like X11 protocol design. That just like X11 wayland will have a core protocol and a stack of extensions this is the way Wayland is designed to be.

Why make a core protocol and a stack of extensions instead of everything in the core protocol. Its simple really its allows you to have each extension bit with their own working group and maintainers so able to operate effectively.

So wayland need of extensions is not that the scope is too narrow but this is because this is how Wayland is designed for simpler development.

[oiaohm]

So I just watched the video (which is great btw) but its not at all related to the whole NVidia problem. I mean the other guy is right, you have this irrational hatred of NVidia which means that you not only blame NVidia for everything but you also bring it up in completely unrelated points (like this video).

No its not hate. Watching the video and the write up on what the developer has done. Does not state why the developers work has been funded. The reality its Valve wanting gamescope working is where the funding is coming from. You don't want to here where the funding for this work has come from. Valve is working jointly with collabera

Alexandros Frantzis is very diplomatic.
This setup works but the extra dependency on X11/XWayland is a source of complexity and possible inefficiencies.
This line you learn with him is you read there are inefficiencies with different combinations. This is the Nvidia Xwayland problem.

[oiaohm]

Not quite true, on an AMD a friend of mine had a lot of problems with some wine programs, this led him to return to Xorg.

This is related to less users. The slower migration caused by lack of Nvidia support.

I happened to use GTK2 and Qt4 applications that worked consuming a lot more resources, which may not be a problem on modern PCs, but on older PCs they are.

The reality here is Xwayland on Weston you will see in all cases is lighter than bar metal X11 server if you are on AMD and Intel. Not all wayland compositors are created equal in their handing of X11 clients at this stage. Also if you are on a Nvidia card items like GTK2 and Qt4 do using opengl so this causes a software render to fire up that is not light on Xwayland this causes those with Nvidia running old applications to go this eat more resources when the problem is really nvidia lack of support..

[dragon321]

The constant need for Wayland extensions is because its scope is too narrow, it'll never be capable of supporting all the features a modern desktop compositor needs. It wasn't designed for modern desktops...

This is clearly false statement. If you think that Wayland was designed for mobile I suggest checking history again.

[Alexmitter]

But at least it works on X. Wine will never work on Wayland because it's fucked up by design.

And "work" here means, in theory, able to pass all tests, with enough effort implementing it. Not your shitty gaming session.

There's no future when you know you'll never be able to properly implement the Windows API on top of Wayland, literally waste of time, a dead end.

The biggest issue was aligning the child windows(all the small drop down menus) to were they belong. This was the single biggest issue on porting Wine to Wayland, and this driver proposal here solves it.
I build their branch, it works fine, all child's are aligned just properly how they should. This is hard evidence my friend, and its not a dirty hack, not more then the x11 wine driver at least.

[mdedetrich]

This is related to less users. The slower migration caused by lack of Nvidia support.

Jesus christ man, stop blaming everything on NVidia. Yes some problems with Wayland is due to NVidia, but the majority of issues with Wayland is due to the project and how it was managed/developed.

[zxy_thf]

But at least it works on X. Wine will never work on Wayland because it's fucked up by design.

And "work" here means, in theory, able to pass all tests, with enough effort implementing it. Not your shitty gaming session.

There's no future when you know you'll never be able to properly implement the Windows API on top of Wayland, literally waste of time, a dead end.

What's the point of properly implementing those insecure-by-design WIndows API?
Just because you wanna fuck up with everyone's Linux box with a single universal keylogger.exe?

[oiaohm]

Jesus christ man, stop blaming everything on NVidia. Yes some problems with Wayland is due to NVidia, but the majority of issues with Wayland is due to the project and how it was managed/developed.

Really you did not want to go there. There has been a lot more management stalls caused by Nvidia with wayland. The reality is if Nvidia not the dominate card things would have progressed way faster.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-Getting-The-Alloc-Going

Lot of things stalled waiting for Nvidia to get this stuff going then Nvidia has basically never delivered. If Nvidia had been minor vendor they would have just been ignored.

Management of Wayland is partly to blame but lot of the stalls have been caused by Nvidia promising things so developers of Wayland deciding to wait before locking in the extensions to wayland in case something in what Nvidia does does not work. Then Nvidia has failed to deliver. Just like Xwayland failure to deliver from Nvidia.

Reality there is hell load about the current wayland mess that is pure Nvidia jerking everyone around.

[duby229]

This is clearly false statement. If you think that Wayland was designed for mobile I suggest checking history again.

It was definitely designed initially with the scope being for kiosks or other single purpose interfaces for sure... It may have changed since then but they have been stuck with the scope it was intended initially for ever since then. Meanwhile it's 13 years later and it still has to be extended further...

[duby229]

So what do you think is going to happen? Wayland itself gets replaced?

Yes! Definitely YES!! Should of been started 10 years ago!!