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Fedora Looks To Provide Standalone XWayland Package Tracking X.Org Server Git

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  • Fedora Looks To Provide Standalone XWayland Package Tracking X.Org Server Git

    Phoronix: Fedora Looks To Provide Standalone XWayland Package Tracking X.Org Server Git

    With the X.Org Server being "abandonware" but at the same time the upstream XWayland portion of the codebase continuing to be worked on, Fedora developers at Red Hat are looking at splitting XWayland into its own standalone package to make it easier to ship it without having to use the rest of the xorg-server code-base...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...Standalone-Pkg

  • #2
    This is a great opportunity. While X is abandoned, Xwayland is the last part of it that gets actual work on but it is tied to Xorg having to have a release. Xwayland as a standalone package with its own release is exactly what is needed.

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    • #3
      Very nice!

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      • #4
        The state of X is very frustrating. Lots of commits since the last release, commits still flowing in, 77 merge requests open, but no new release. It's "abandoned" in the sense that no one in charge wants to tag out a release, but not abandoned in that it isn't being worked on.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Snaipersky View Post
          The state of X is very frustrating. Lots of commits since the last release, commits still flowing in, 77 merge requests open, but no new release. It's "abandoned" in the sense that no one in charge wants to tag out a release, but not abandoned in that it isn't being worked on.
          This "abandonware" works excellently well for me. Maybe it's time for a fork.
          Only DE which "works" is GNOME, Sway is not a full desktop. So what about the rest? Wayland based desktops don't have feature parity.
          Where's that "every frame is perfect" bullshit? You can make GNOME stutter, windows lag behind cursor. KDE (plasma for pedantic KDE devs) still can crash whole session for some reason.
          I'm really tired of "the next great thing" in opensource community.
          End of my rant, just another glass house bullshit. Congrats to embedded sector, your toy is useful there.

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          • #6
            After 12 years of development around Wayland the only way they have to make people give a damn about it is to stop developing Xorg...

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Pepec9124 View Post

              This "abandonware" works excellently well for me. Maybe it's time for a fork.
              Only DE which "works" is GNOME, Sway is not a full desktop. So what about the rest? Wayland based desktops don't have feature parity.
              Where's that "every frame is perfect" bullshit? You can make GNOME stutter, windows lag behind cursor. KDE (plasma for pedantic KDE devs) still can crash whole session for some reason.
              I'm really tired of "the next great thing" in opensource community.
              End of my rant, just another glass house bullshit. Congrats to embedded sector, your toy is useful there.
              My sentiments as well. Feels like systemd vs upstart all over again. "No new releases, so its bad and dead and shouldn't exist" and "No bugs here, its either a feature or you're doing it wrong". Spoils what good work *is* being done.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Pepec9124 View Post
                This "abandonware" works excellently well for me. Maybe it's time for a fork.
                Except forking X11 and fixing X11 issues you end up with something like https://arcan-fe.com/ where none of your existing X11 DE or Windows managers in fact work any more. Yes Arcan have a new A12 protocol.

                The path forwards does not have the means to keep the existing X11 windows manager or X11 compositors alive because they were all designed to work using features that result in totally insecure desktops.

                Originally posted by Pepec9124 View Post
                I'm really tired of "the next great thing" in opensource community.
                This is not really the next great thing. This is really a case of having major broken.

                Originally posted by Shiba View Post
                After 12 years of development around Wayland the only way they have to make people give a damn about it is to stop developing Xorg...
                13 years is about right development. That how long Mac OS quartz took really to get designed. Mac OS 9 to Mac OS 10 is when apple change to Quartz but it development started in nextstep 13 years before. When the change over came the Mac OS 9 old display interface system stopped development as well. This is a normal time frame.

                Like or not Arcan developers took notice that X11 end of life was coming. X11 end of life as a desktop solution is basically here like it or not. Yes this means having to rebuild the desktop this is coming with some pain.

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                • #9
                  Very good. I don't want to have this abandonware crap installed.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Snaipersky View Post

                    My sentiments as well. Feels like systemd vs upstart all over again. "No new releases, so its bad and dead and shouldn't exist" and "No bugs here, its either a feature or you're doing it wrong". Spoils what good work *is* being done.
                    To be honest systemd is really great and miles better than any Linux/Unix initialization system before it. It has a ton of extremely useful features which come in handy both on the desktop and for servers. It simplifies, makes everything transparent and blazingly fast. Instead of writing and duplicating a ton of boilerplate code, we now have very short simplistic unit files which are easy to write and inspect, alone with features not available earlier.

                    Wayland on the other hand ... I liked the idea to start from scratch - only it didn't suppose to mean "to create something so barebones you'll need hundreds of thousands of lines of code to make it work semi-decently under it" and that's what we've got in the end. Steve Ballmer used to dance, jump on the scene and shout "Developers, developers, developers!" and he was right, only he should have said "APIs, APIs, APIs".

                    A few weeks ago I provided links how to create a simple "Hello, World" graphical applications for Win32, MacOS, Android and iOS. Win32 was by far the worst - the whole 50(!) lines of code. Meanwhile the same application for Wayland takes hundreds if not thousands of lines of code. To exacerbate everything under decent OSes and GUI systems you don't need to think about proper 2D/3D acceleration, HID input, etc. as everything is provided out of the box. Not so much under Wayland.

                    wlroots was a step in the right direction. Only it was way too late and this is only a library for creating a WM/Wayland compositor. And it's not even official.
                    Last edited by birdie; 30 November 2020, 06:52 PM.

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