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GNOME X.Org vs. Wayland Performance + Power Usage On Fedora 32 With AMD Renoir Laptop
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Why everybody is trashing Wayland but here we only see Mutter, which is GNOME implementation of Wayland protocol??
Doesn't make sense.
Also someone asked "why is there no common impl done by Wayland team" :
there is, it's called Weston.
Anyway, what I find interesting here is we get lower RAM consumption with Xwayland, which indicates Mutter is still a big pile of memory waste that only the GNOME team can deliver for almost ten years straight... Metacity was barely making it and Mutter is not far from the tree. Makes you wonder if GNOME devs learnt anything.
The issue here is not in Wayland.
Would be interesting to compare native Wayland-ready softwares running on Mutter vs Kwin vs Enlightment vs whatever other Wayland impl.
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Originally posted by pazns View PostWhy everybody is trashing Wayland but here we only see Mutter, which is GNOME implementation of Wayland protocol??
I'm not sure if E's implementation is commercial supported and KDE's is community effort.
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Originally posted by pazns View PostAnyway, what I find interesting here is we get lower RAM consumption with Xwayland, which indicates Mutter is still a big pile of memory waste that only the GNOME team can deliver for almost ten years straight... Metacity was barely making it and Mutter is not far from the tree. Makes you wonder if GNOME devs learnt anything.
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Originally posted by tomas View PostWhat's a bit funny with all of these X11 "fans", is that they treat this like some kind of contest where X11 could somehow "win". When the truth is that X11 will slowly but inevitably be phased out during the coming years by wayland. That's just the way it is. And the reason is that the main development happens on wayland and not X11. Many of the wayland contributors are in fact prior contributors to X11. So right now I would say that xorg X11 is in the same position as XFree86 used to be in. It will still be there and used, but it's importance will slowly but surely diminish until one day when it will be so obscure that only old timers like me will remember it. Right now Fedora uses wayland (gnome) by default and the next Ubuntu LTS (22.04) most certainly will as well. And this transition will just keep happening on more and more distributions over the coming years. Sure, there will always be some obscure distro that refuses to move and that will offer xorg X11 for some time, just like there is devuan for those that don't like systemd, but in the broader picture it will not matter much. And when the major graphical toolkits like gtk and Qt someday drops X11, then that will be the end of it.
The only thing these users are saying (and I'm among them) is "We're not there yet". And 10-12 years later, yes it raises concerns and a little bit of mockery.
I've played a lot with wayland lately and I could list at least 10 blocking things which makes me go back to X every single time. I've discussed this enough and won't start the same discussion all over again, but users (many have already raised their complaints) have still too many issues.
We are fine with Fedora guinea pigs testing wayland, and we'll thank them for that when the time comes. There's no right or wrong or winners here. But early adopters do not make a mature solution, as convinced as they are that it works (for them). Most people will only switch when everything's ironed out.
I might even do it if I can finally watch a video in 4k60 without it being a speedfest with a high pitched distorted voice. Even better, if SMPlayer is updated to work with it. If they find an alt+f2 + r alternative (I'm not going to log out and back in to correct Gnome RAM issue or to recover from a broken DE). If or when Ctrl + scroll zooms again in gthumb. When Unite extension will work seamlessly with it. When Firefox title bar won't be lost somewhere in full screen on the screen with no top bar (talking about Firefox wayland, not Xwayland). Etc... Too many things still...
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Originally posted by Mez' View PostThat's just not true. X11 users don't treat it like it will win. They are neither fans nor supporters, they are very well aware wayland will be default at some point.
Originally posted by Mez' View PostThe only thing these users are saying (and I'm among them) is "We're not there yet". And 10-12 years later, yes it raises concerns and a little bit of mockery.Last edited by tomas; 14 June 2020, 02:33 PM.
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