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GNOME X.Org vs. Wayland Performance + Power Usage On Fedora 32 With AMD Renoir Laptop

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    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    Umm, your last sentence is total bullshit.

    Nvidia drivers have decades old multi-monitor bugs that nVidia still refuses to acknowledge. -By far- a bigger problem is its unbearably slow Xrender acceleration, desktop performance on nVidia is just too damn slow. But nVidia drivers biggest problem is that it's OpenGL implementation isn't even -anywhere- close to compliant with Kronos specs. Nvidia makes NO attempt at all to fix their longstanding multi-monitor bugs and they make NO attempt to improve their horrible Xrender performance and they exacerbate their nonstandard OpenGL every single chance they get.

    On the other hand AMD's OSS drivers may not have been full featured until the least few years, but at least they were completely stable and fast and standards compliant since at least 2010, with only a few exceptions pertaining to new product releases.

    NOT counting FGLRX, that driver was total garbage.
    Nvidia doesn't need to care about that,... They focus at gamers, and CUDA solutions. Gamers (mostly) use only single monitor to get the best performance. And, CUDA users don't care that much, as they just want to get acceleration working for their projects.

    However, I hope AMD gets much better position in the market. I like AMD's OSS support. I wouldn't go with Nvidia GPU.

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  • mdedetrich
    Senior Member

  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    Umm, your last sentence is total bullshit.

    Nvidia drivers have decades old multi-monitor bugs that nVidia still refuses to acknowledge. -By far- a bigger problem is its unbearably slow Xrender acceleration, desktop performance on nVidia is just too damn slow. But nVidia drivers biggest problem is that it's OpenGL implementation isn't even -anywhere- close to compliant with Kronos specs. Nvidia makes NO attempt at all to fix their longstanding multi-monitor bugs and they make NO attempt to improve their horrible Xrender performance and they exacerbate their nonstandard OpenGL every single chance they get.
    Thats because they were mainly X11 bugs, AMD also had similar issues.

    Regarding OpenGL spec, they don't follow the OpenGL spec completely because a lot of games don't follow it either. I mentioned it in some other thread.

    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
    On the other hand AMD's OSS drivers may not have been full featured until the least few years, but at least they were completely stable and fast and standards compliant since at least 2010, with only a few exceptions pertaining to new product releases.

    NOT counting FGLRX, that driver was total garbage.
    Even the open source drivers currently have a lot of issues. Note that I have been running X11 + Nvidia on a laptop with multiple displays for the past decade. The biggest issue I have experienced is actually optimus/render offload.


    Note that I typically ran KDE if that makes a difference.

    Leave a comment:

  • cRaZy-bisCuiT
    Senior Member

  • cRaZy-bisCuiT
    replied
    Actually native Wayland Firefox vs native X11 Firefox vs native Windows Firefox would be nice. What about Benchmarking native Wayland SDL Game vs native X11 Game vs natitve DX on Windows Game ... e.g. Dota!?

    PS: There're other features to consider as well except for just performance, Wayland brings many improvements whs to video playback, scrolling in browsers and gameplay in regards to image consistency.
    cRaZy-bisCuiT
    Senior Member
    Last edited by cRaZy-bisCuiT; 16 June 2020, 06:26 AM.

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  • reba
    Senior Member

  • reba
    replied
    Originally posted by ArchLinux View Post
    So Wayland sucks or tests suck?
    Tests (kind of) suck.

    Michael is comparing
    - Firefox (Window Protocol x11) -> XWayland -> Wayland (Mutter)
    versus
    - Firefox (Window Protocol x11) -> X11

    when we just wanted to see
    - Firefox (Window Protocol wayland/drm) -> Wayland (Mutter)
    versus
    - Firefox (Window Protocol x11) -> X11
    reba
    Senior Member
    Last edited by reba; 16 June 2020, 03:47 AM.

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  • duby229
    Senior Member

  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by Tvashtar View Post
    Michael
    Phoronix
    Michael , are you purposely trying to mislead the readers? It should be noted that you're not using native Wayland, Firefox has clear advantages under it nowadays, in the form of hardware video acceleration to name one.
    Besides anybody who used it natively knows how smooth it is comparatively.
    Firefox under X11 has Xrender acceleration disabled by default. Enable that and smoothness problem goes away. Why Xrender is disabled is totally beyond me though, at least as far as end user perception goes it seems to work just fine.

    Leave a comment:

  • Tvashtar
    Junior Member

  • Tvashtar
    replied
    Michael
    Phoronix
    Michael , are you purposely trying to mislead the readers? It should be noted that you're not using native Wayland, Firefox has clear advantages under it nowadays, in the form of hardware video acceleration to name one.
    Besides anybody who used it natively knows how smooth it is comparatively.

    Leave a comment:

  • duby229
    Senior Member

  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

    I use X11 with video acceleration and have zero issues. The problem (if there is one) with video acceleration has nothing to do with X11/Wayland but rather the fact we have 3 competing libraries for video acceleration plus the fact you have to manually patch things like chrome/chromium on Linux if you even want video acceleration.

    NVidia + X11 has historically worked very well. AMD with X11 was terrible up until a few years ago
    Umm, your last sentence is total bullshit.

    Nvidia drivers have decades old multi-monitor bugs that nVidia still refuses to acknowledge. -By far- a bigger problem is its unbearably slow Xrender acceleration, desktop performance on nVidia is just too damn slow. But nVidia drivers biggest problem is that it's OpenGL implementation isn't even -anywhere- close to compliant with Kronos specs. Nvidia makes NO attempt at all to fix their longstanding multi-monitor bugs and they make NO attempt to improve their horrible Xrender performance and they exacerbate their nonstandard OpenGL every single chance they get.

    On the other hand AMD's OSS drivers may not have been full featured until the least few years, but at least they were completely stable and fast and standards compliant since at least 2010, with only a few exceptions pertaining to new product releases.

    NOT counting FGLRX, that driver was total garbage.
    duby229
    Senior Member
    Last edited by duby229; 15 June 2020, 11:17 PM.

    Leave a comment:

  • smitty3268
    Senior Member

  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by johnp117 View Post

    Maze solver Wayland was run 3 times, whereas X11 was run 5 times (see the `N` in the benchmark graphs).
    Thanks, that makes sense.

    I was pretty sure my legit question was going to get missed among all the flamewar material going on, so I appreciate someone noticing.

    Leave a comment:

  • mdedetrich
    Senior Member

  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by Volta View Post

    The fact is you have no clue. Alt+Tab broken, video acceleration broken etc.
    I use X11 with video acceleration and have zero issues. The problem (if there is one) with video acceleration has nothing to do with X11/Wayland but rather the fact we have 3 competing libraries for video acceleration plus the fact you have to manually patch things like chrome/chromium on Linux if you even want video acceleration.

    NVidia + X11 has historically worked very well. AMD with X11 was terrible up until a few years ago

    Leave a comment:

  • skeevy420
    Senior Member

  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by acobar View Post

    "Flat Earth" is something that no educated human being believe since Greek times, Eratosthenes of Cyrene calculated Earth circumference some ~2350 years ago, was really good for that time, and it was seen as spherical even before that, at around 500 BC. Somehow, people keep repeating this lie.
    https://www.aps.org/publications/aps...06/history.cfm

    I have seen here both sides attacking each other, and even though it is sure that X has been showing its age and got patched to run acceptably on modern hardware, and displaying all its deficiencies, it is also clear by now that Wayland went too far for simplicity, assuming that any lacking trait could be fixed later, and now we have this weird situation where, besides events, to it only exist a video memory buffer. As a consequence, the Wayland protocol is very inefficient to send a screen over network, and we may end up using VNC instead of something like Windows RDP. Worst, every Wayland client must "reinvent" the wheel, what is wasteful and make it hard to have "optimal" results. Will this be addressed? Really don't know, as we have too many groups very invested on their own solutions.

    About week days names, perhaps, what you said may be true for English language, but it is not for the others, for Latin derived ones, the origin comes from gods and celestial bodies. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_...ys_of_the_week.

    Really, I understand that you tried to use funny parallels on your comment, but I see no similarities.

    I'm in no way offended, I'm agnostic.
    I can't say I disagree with that. For the more educated/religious it was always an Earth-centric system versus a Sol-centric system (from a Western perspective on history). Technically we're in the Sol-Jupiter system but nobody ever likes discussing that....bastards....

    I've always thought one of the problems was the "every Wayland client". Sucks they all can't or won't just go with something like Sway. I say that and I see VNC which reminds me of VLC. A lot of people seem to like VLC but I prefer SMPlayer. While, ideally, it'd be nice for them to get along and play nicely, I completely get why they might be doing their own thing with their own solutions. Since a lot of people seem to get pissed at X11 being too bloated, patched together, and all that, making Wayland intentionally minimal and then making everyone else reinvent the wheel intentional is to prevent the X11 complaints. People can then blame Mutter or Sway for being too bloated, I guess...I dunno... It's topics like this where I'm upset that I'm rational and can see the merit of both sides of an argument because I totally get both the minimalist and bloated preferences that stems in Wayland discussions.

    Next time scroll down more dammit . But, yeah, in modern English those days are based on the old Germanic gods. Saturn is a pretty sweet planet to look at so I get why they didn't hand Saturday off to a different god back in the days.

    Everybody has a different sense of humor so it's all good if you don't get it.

    Me too. I learned about too many religions as a kid.
    skeevy420
    Senior Member
    Last edited by skeevy420; 15 June 2020, 05:24 PM.

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