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GNOME X.Org vs. Wayland Performance + Power Usage On Fedora 32 With AMD Renoir Laptop

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  • Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
    tildearrow
    Senior Member
    tildearrow My feelings are not important. So I haven’t shared any.
    Yes you have.

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    • Originally posted by ArchLinux View Post

      That's way too much text around some good stats, but you're apparently only comparing clean just-logged-in sessions with nothing running.
      IF you had read the text rather than just some numbers, you wouldn't need that reply as I clearly said it's not a brilliant benchmark but an indicator... perhaps you should read a bit more? Like the bits where I say I work on said code so you can be sure this indicator is not just a "on startup" but a general trend over a longer runtime too which I clearly indicate as well as this is just an indicator of where things are going. I actually profile my code regularly in gory detail from a range of angles, and an app is running - a terminal, not empty. You didn't read the bit where I said '"I spent all of 5 minutes on this and i need to go to sleep now" which is why it's not clearly not exhaustive. I clearly qualified and detailed the situation already - thus text to go read. It'd up to a much more involved benchmark to do that and I had and still have many other more important things to do, but I do know Wayland can easily do better than X11.

      I've been doing this for over 25 years. Wayland is the first X alternative that has gotten any traction and it is decently designed. I've watched the hopefuls come and go and leave X11 still standing, until now. X11 is still standing but Wayland has not gone... it's growing. I was totally "Oh ANOTHER X11 replacement? Do you want to join the corpses of Y-windows, Berlin and DirectFB and possibly some other lesser knowns? Ummm no thanks" for the first few years because of this. I changed my mind as time went on for good reasons.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by acobar View Post

        "Flat Earth" is something that no educated human being believe since Greek times, Eratosthenes of Cyrene calculated Earth circumference some ~2350 years ago, was really good for that time, and it was seen as spherical even before that, at around 500 BC. Somehow, people keep repeating this lie.
        https://www.aps.org/publications/aps...06/history.cfm

        I have seen here both sides attacking each other, and even though it is sure that X has been showing its age and got patched to run acceptably on modern hardware, and displaying all its deficiencies, it is also clear by now that Wayland went too far for simplicity, assuming that any lacking trait could be fixed later, and now we have this weird situation where, besides events, to it only exist a video memory buffer. As a consequence, the Wayland protocol is very inefficient to send a screen over network, and we may end up using VNC instead of something like Windows RDP. Worst, every Wayland client must "reinvent" the wheel, what is wasteful and make it hard to have "optimal" results. Will this be addressed? Really don't know, as we have too many groups very invested on their own solutions.

        About week days names, perhaps, what you said may be true for English language, but it is not for the others, for Latin derived ones, the origin comes from gods and celestial bodies. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_...ys_of_the_week.

        Really, I understand that you tried to use funny parallels on your comment, but I see no similarities.

        I'm in no way offended, I'm agnostic.
        I can't say I disagree with that. For the more educated/religious it was always an Earth-centric system versus a Sol-centric system (from a Western perspective on history). Technically we're in the Sol-Jupiter system but nobody ever likes discussing that....bastards....

        I've always thought one of the problems was the "every Wayland client". Sucks they all can't or won't just go with something like Sway. I say that and I see VNC which reminds me of VLC. A lot of people seem to like VLC but I prefer SMPlayer. While, ideally, it'd be nice for them to get along and play nicely, I completely get why they might be doing their own thing with their own solutions. Since a lot of people seem to get pissed at X11 being too bloated, patched together, and all that, making Wayland intentionally minimal and then making everyone else reinvent the wheel intentional is to prevent the X11 complaints. People can then blame Mutter or Sway for being too bloated, I guess...I dunno... It's topics like this where I'm upset that I'm rational and can see the merit of both sides of an argument because I totally get both the minimalist and bloated preferences that stems in Wayland discussions.

        Next time scroll down more dammit . But, yeah, in modern English those days are based on the old Germanic gods. Saturn is a pretty sweet planet to look at so I get why they didn't hand Saturday off to a different god back in the days.

        Everybody has a different sense of humor so it's all good if you don't get it.

        Me too. I learned about too many religions as a kid.
        skeevy420
        Senior Member
        Last edited by skeevy420; 15 June 2020, 05:24 PM.

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        • Originally posted by Volta View Post

          The fact is you have no clue. Alt+Tab broken, video acceleration broken etc.
          I use X11 with video acceleration and have zero issues. The problem (if there is one) with video acceleration has nothing to do with X11/Wayland but rather the fact we have 3 competing libraries for video acceleration plus the fact you have to manually patch things like chrome/chromium on Linux if you even want video acceleration.

          NVidia + X11 has historically worked very well. AMD with X11 was terrible up until a few years ago

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          • Originally posted by johnp117 View Post

            Maze solver Wayland was run 3 times, whereas X11 was run 5 times (see the `N` in the benchmark graphs).
            Thanks, that makes sense.

            I was pretty sure my legit question was going to get missed among all the flamewar material going on, so I appreciate someone noticing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post

              I use X11 with video acceleration and have zero issues. The problem (if there is one) with video acceleration has nothing to do with X11/Wayland but rather the fact we have 3 competing libraries for video acceleration plus the fact you have to manually patch things like chrome/chromium on Linux if you even want video acceleration.

              NVidia + X11 has historically worked very well. AMD with X11 was terrible up until a few years ago
              Umm, your last sentence is total bullshit.

              Nvidia drivers have decades old multi-monitor bugs that nVidia still refuses to acknowledge. -By far- a bigger problem is its unbearably slow Xrender acceleration, desktop performance on nVidia is just too damn slow. But nVidia drivers biggest problem is that it's OpenGL implementation isn't even -anywhere- close to compliant with Kronos specs. Nvidia makes NO attempt at all to fix their longstanding multi-monitor bugs and they make NO attempt to improve their horrible Xrender performance and they exacerbate their nonstandard OpenGL every single chance they get.

              On the other hand AMD's OSS drivers may not have been full featured until the least few years, but at least they were completely stable and fast and standards compliant since at least 2010, with only a few exceptions pertaining to new product releases.

              NOT counting FGLRX, that driver was total garbage.
              duby229
              Senior Member
              Last edited by duby229; 15 June 2020, 11:17 PM.

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              • Michael
                Phoronix
                Michael , are you purposely trying to mislead the readers? It should be noted that you're not using native Wayland, Firefox has clear advantages under it nowadays, in the form of hardware video acceleration to name one.
                Besides anybody who used it natively knows how smooth it is comparatively.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Tvashtar View Post
                  Michael
                  Phoronix
                  Michael , are you purposely trying to mislead the readers? It should be noted that you're not using native Wayland, Firefox has clear advantages under it nowadays, in the form of hardware video acceleration to name one.
                  Besides anybody who used it natively knows how smooth it is comparatively.
                  Firefox under X11 has Xrender acceleration disabled by default. Enable that and smoothness problem goes away. Why Xrender is disabled is totally beyond me though, at least as far as end user perception goes it seems to work just fine.

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                  • Originally posted by ArchLinux View Post
                    So Wayland sucks or tests suck?
                    Tests (kind of) suck.

                    Michael is comparing
                    - Firefox (Window Protocol x11) -> XWayland -> Wayland (Mutter)
                    versus
                    - Firefox (Window Protocol x11) -> X11

                    when we just wanted to see
                    - Firefox (Window Protocol wayland/drm) -> Wayland (Mutter)
                    versus
                    - Firefox (Window Protocol x11) -> X11
                    reba
                    Senior Member
                    Last edited by reba; 16 June 2020, 03:47 AM.

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                    • Actually native Wayland Firefox vs native X11 Firefox vs native Windows Firefox would be nice. What about Benchmarking native Wayland SDL Game vs native X11 Game vs natitve DX on Windows Game ... e.g. Dota!?

                      PS: There're other features to consider as well except for just performance, Wayland brings many improvements whs to video playback, scrolling in browsers and gameplay in regards to image consistency.
                      cRaZy-bisCuiT
                      Senior Member
                      Last edited by cRaZy-bisCuiT; 16 June 2020, 06:26 AM.

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