Microsoft Is Writing Its Own Wayland Compositor As Part Of WSL2 GUI Efforts

[mdedetrich]

You can't decently call 2000€ pro series laptops "shit". These are high end devices. Most people cannot afford that on a personal level.

My mum has a pro series spectre HP laptop at 2.5k and she has been using Windows without any crashes (I would know if it crashed because I am always first line of contact when something "slightly wrong" happens.) I personally have a 3.8k Thinkpad laptop that is running Windows without a single crash either (and this is with more exotic hardware, i.e. an OLED screen which funnily enough LInux has problems handling).

I am assuming one of the following is happening

1. You are installing some really weird stuff on your laptop which is causing the crash
2. You have some crappy hardware plugged into the laptop that is causing the crash (or you did some weird hardware specific stuff to the laptop).
3. You are bullshitting to make a point. Considering you were claiming before that it was Windows laptops at your company and now you are talking about your personal laptop I think this scenario is somewhat likely.

I am generally curious, post the screenshot of the crash you are experiencing. Also did you install updates?

[jo-erlend]

The overlap in what applications run on a similar (contemporaneous) Ubuntu and Debian is, I don't know, 99%? The same overlap between Android and Ubuntu/Debian is close to zero. You can't take a Linux app and run it on Android. This is why it's ok to call both Ubuntu and Debian just Linux, because really, they all run the same apps. Android doesn't.

And FWIW Android will probably switch to the Fuchsia kernel soon(ish).

I don't understand your argument at all. You're arguing that your singular The Linux OS is fragmented because of the lack of enforced incompatibilities between different Linux-based operating systems? So let's say that Microsoft allows Mac to run all Windows applications. Then Mac OS would have to be referred to as The Windows OS and then you would finally admit that they were fragmented?

Your logic is really confusing to me. I don't understand the value in pretending that Debian and Ubuntu are just two different names for the same software product when you obviously know that this is a lie?

[JackLilhammers]

Didn't you notice there are at least three versions of control panels in Windows? One looks like Win 3.1 incarnation and the second is pre-Windows 10. It's inconsistent mess.



Probably the first, but I would start worrying about security.. Btw. flatpak is much better solution here. It won't pollute entire system with old libraries.



Yes, he does. Indirectly. Otherwise, he wouldn't have usable system.



Everything what average Joe will see is built upon internals. If fundamentals are broken everything built on it will be more or less broken. Linux was divided too much and it was its downside (maybe not for the advanced users). Years ago the only modern things in Linux were Kernel and GCC. I'm not counting applications. Everything else was legacy stuff from post Unix era. X is probably the last thing that needs to be replaced. Linux is nearly there and from some reasons there are now wild attacks on it. It smells bad and currently there's only one company that still stinks the most: m$.

Average Joe cares about having a usable system.
All the other things are details that most of the people won't even bother to know.

I really don't see all these wild attacks on Linux, but I'm starting to think that most of the people commenting posts about Microsoft are living in the past

[mdedetrich]

The overlap in what applications run on a similar (contemporaneous) Ubuntu and Debian is, I don't know, 99%? The same overlap between Android and Ubuntu/Debian is close to zero. You can't take a Linux app and run it on Android. This is why it's ok to call both Ubuntu and Debian just Linux, because really, they all run the same apps. Android doesn't.

And FWIW Android will probably switch to the Fuchsia kernel soon(ish).

FYI There are 2 main reasons why Android is exploring (and probably switching to Zircon which is the Kernel used for Fuschia)

• Linux deliberately provides no stable driver ABI which is the main cause of phones running outdated Linux versions. This causes extreme pain for Google (especially for security issues in Linux) as they are unable to update Linux version independently from driver versions. Zircon like Windows will have a stable driver ABI. (fyi the lack of a stable driver ABI is also the same issue Linux has with NVidia drivers).
• Zircon contains many improvements over Linux which is much more relevant for modern hardware, i.e. it has an efficient non blocking async interface/IPC directly in the kernel, something that is very beneficial for UI heavy interfaces.

I really don't see all these wild attacks on Linux, but I'm starting to think that most of the people commenting posts about Microsoft are living in the past

They are, considering that people are quoting things from 13 years ago.

[Azrael5]

Xorg is obsolete and inefficient. It makes slow the Linux evolution. Xorg justifies itself 20 years ago. After 12 years, linux developers are not able to implement Wayland making the transition of software to this new kind of graphical APIs framework. The linux developers stuck in obsolescence the whole linux operating systems except in Fedora whom transition is really recent. Microsoft development team will fix this inability in few time.

[vladpetric]

I have the same problem regarding hybrid sleep and waking up with a dual boot laptop. This is kind of understandable though because you have 2 OS's that put sleep data into either memory and/or disk which causes conflicts (i.e. you sleep in Windows but you want to put into Linux or vice versa). I just disabled fast wakeup in my BIOS (I have a fast SSD so the difference is negligible for me).

Actually my issue is somewhat weirder - I'm typically not installing Linux on a civilian's laptop (i.e., my spouse), btw. In this case waking up from hybrid sleep (which is a mix of in memory sleep and hibernation) doesn't always initialize the laptop keyboard properly at boot. But I set up a boot-time PIN for security, and sometimes she needs to plug in a USB keyboard to be able to input it.

But that sounds like a good idea to try.

[Volta]

Average Joe cares about having a usable system.
All the other things are details that most of the people won't even bother to know.

I really don't see all these wild attacks on Linux, but I'm starting to think that most of the people commenting posts about Microsoft are living in the past

To have an usable system there were changes needed to be done. The last major change is to replace Xorg. Nobody who's seeing leech company as a treat is living in the past. There's still enterprise where MS tries to hold.

[Volta]

aht0
I have to take a look at this.

[mdedetrich]

Actually my issue is somewhat weirder - I'm typically not installing Linux on a civilian's laptop (i.e., my spouse), btw. In this case waking up from hybrid sleep (which is a mix of in memory sleep and hibernation) doesn't always initialize the laptop keyboard properly at boot. But I set up a boot-time PIN for security, and sometimes she needs to plug in a USB keyboard to be able to input it.

But that sounds like a good idea to try.

My issue was also a bit weird, it wasn't with the keyboard but rather the display which sometimes gets stuck at half brightness thinking that its full brightness when booting.

In any case disabling fast boot helped a lot in BIOS, I think its recommended by a lot of Linux distro's to do this (also this isn't really Windows fault).

[vladpetric]

FYI There are 2 main reasons why Android is exploring (and probably switching to Zircon which is the Kernel used for Fuschia)

• Linux deliberately provides no stable driver ABI which is the main cause of phones running outdated Linux versions. This causes extreme pain for Google (especially for security issues in Linux) as they are unable to update Linux version independently from driver versions. Zircon like Windows will have a stable driver ABI. (fyi the lack of a stable driver ABI is also the same issue Linux has with NVidia drivers).

That's just bad engineering, as far as I'm concerned. By and large the Linux kernel is pretty good quality, but I really think that not having a hard separation between drivers and the rest of the kernel is bad engineering/bad strategy. In order to separate drivers in their own memory protection domain, for instance, you need to start with an ABI separation.