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KDE Continuing To See More Wayland Improvements, Fixes To Dolphin

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  • #11
    I think I posted this before, but I wish
    Michael
    Phoronix
    Michael would stop copy/pasting these pieces of news.
    Until KDE offers a clear overview about where they are wrt Wayland support, telling me they fixed another handful of bugs gives no idea whether we're 10% or 90% there.
    ngraham
    Senior Member
    ngraham is free to post what he wishes on his own blog, but that does not make everything there automatically newsworthy.
    (I also wish Wayland would define some kind of profiles so it would be easy to tell what's required for a desktop, mobile, TV and so on, but they don't generally seem to be bothered with requests from the community.)

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    • #12
      Originally posted by andyprough View Post

      Actually, he was polite about stating his disagreement regarding the fork, so calling it a "war" is just a bunch of silly nonsense. Of course you didn't link to it, since the blog itself contradicts your description of it. Here it is: https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/bl...04/on-forking/

      Of interest from his blog post is this, however:
      Thanks for providing that link, let's see what comes out of this. I still hope for the best for us users. And I welcome Roman's try to push things forward. I'd like to hear him answer some of those open questions from Martin though. I can only guess that Roman also wants to see more of a change in the development process itself and couldn't get much traction with others but that is just purely my speculation.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
        andyprough
        Senior Member
        andyprough You want to make a point but deliberately cherrypick quotes. That’s dishonest at best.
        Yes, how can he dares to step on a field that is your specialty. Sheesh!!

        Comment


        • #14
          Originally posted by StefanBruens View Post

          The exact opposite - obviously, the issue could be fixed in the current code base, no need for a fork.
          You don't understand, the issue could indeed be fixed in the current code base, and it did NOT, despite Plasma currently being 5.18.4. 4 means 4 bug fix releases, which means 5 releases total that no one bothered to fix something like this. Which means that this team is either incompetent or indifferent about Wayland, no matter how you slice it, having the code under a different team which prioritizes Wayland is the best way to go.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
            "Logging out on Wayland will no longer crash KWin"

            And they wonder why KWin had to be forked....
            You do realize the people behind the new KWin fork are pretty much the same people you claim are "wondering" why KWin had to be forked, right? I mean, Roman is not some random guy that came along and decided to fork KWin on his own, neither is the fork itself a proper fork, i.e. a split in the community due to some kind of disagreement, as you and some others seem to imply; it's more of a working copy that will give the devs (mainly but not only Roman) the freedom they need to make the required changes to KWin faster and thus deliver them sooner, without having to worry about breaking things for current users while they're taking things apart doing their thing.

            Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
            Looks like Martin Floser is pretty unhappy about the Kwin forks. Blog wars.
            That's expected, given Martin until very recently was the main developer of KWin and only stepped down after he disagreed with the rest of the KDE community on the state of things regarding KWin, its quality and its future as far as Wayland is concerned.

            To be Frank, Martin in that blog post of his sounds pretty butthurt to me, even if he tries to come across as graciously nonchalant. I can understand his point of view, since any jab against the quality of KWin is essentially a jab against him personally. Still, he too is pretending as if he doesn't know that Roman is a part of the KDE community and the new lead dev of KWin, not some random internet dude who suddenly decided to come along and fork the project so he can "work on his own".

            This fork is essentially a new branch, not a fork. It will still be developed by the same developers that develop the main KWin branch. It's what Wayland is to X.Org, not what X.Org was to XFree86.

            Originally posted by bug77 View Post
            I think I posted this before, but I wish
            Michael
            Phoronix
            Michael would stop copy/pasting these pieces of news.
            Until KDE offers a clear overview about where they are wrt Wayland support, telling me they fixed another handful of bugs gives no idea whether we're 10% or 90% there.
            ngraham
            Senior Member
            ngraham is free to post what he wishes on his own blog, but that does not make everything there automatically newsworthy.
            (I also wish Wayland would define some kind of profiles so it would be easy to tell what's required for a desktop, mobile, TV and so on, but they don't generally seem to be bothered with requests from the community.)
            You can always go to KDE's Phabricator page and check the state of things yourself.

            Originally posted by ms178 View Post

            Thanks for providing that link, let's see what comes out of this. I still hope for the best for us users. And I welcome Roman's try to push things forward. I'd like to hear him answer some of those open questions from Martin though. I can only guess that Roman also wants to see more of a change in the development process itself and couldn't get much traction with others but that is just purely my speculation.
            I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to KDE's internal politics, but I'm pretty sure this fork was made in agreement with the rest of the dev team, not in spite of them. It bears repeating: Roman is the current lead KWin dev, not some random guy.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
              andyprough
              Senior Member
              andyprough You want to make a point but deliberately cherrypick quotes. That’s dishonest at best.
              Yes, how dare I link to the actual blog post instead of trolling and calling it a "war".

              Comment


              • #17
                Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post

                You don't understand, the issue could indeed be fixed in the current code base, and it did NOT, despite Plasma currently being 5.18.4. 4 means 4 bug fix releases, which means 5 releases total that no one bothered to fix something like this. Which means that this team is either incompetent or indifferent about Wayland, no matter how you slice it, having the code under a different team which prioritizes Wayland is the best way to go.
                It's not that they don't care, it's that they've been lacking in KWin (and low-level in general, but that's a different matter) developers ever since Martin stepped down. And what's more, even when Martin was still on the wheel, and despite his otherwise great work, he used to be very strongheaded when it came to implementing some needed changes to KWin in order to make it work properly under Wayland. The rest of the devs disagreed with him, and that's the reason he left. Only just recently did Roman appear and things started looking up again for KDE in that regard.

                Comment


                • #18
                  Originally posted by Nocifer View Post
                  You can always go to KDE's Phabricator page and check the state of things yourself.
                  I doubt that very much. The best I can hope to achieve is getting a list of Wayland-related tasks. That doesn't tell me how many features are there to implement before being a usable compositor, like the Wayland makers envisioned. It doesn't even tell me how how many features are there to implement before it works the way KDE guys want it to.

                  Comment


                  • #19
                    Originally posted by andyprough View Post
                    Actually, he was polite about stating his disagreement regarding the fork
                    He's a crybaby who, while being a talented developer, has absolutely no clue how Free Software works. He acts as if a fork is something to be shocked about and required some sort of communication outreach first. He's also one of the people who vetoed a LightDM fork back in the day and now Plasma is stuck with the clearly inferior sddm.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Look at how divided these KDE fools are! They should learn from those us in the GNOME community where the devs are of one mind, and the users blindly follow!

                      Oh, and the CLA is the cause of every bug in the KDE. I can't forget to mention the CLA in a KDE/Qt thread.

                      Comment

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