X.Org vs. Wayland Browser Performance With Firefox + Chrome

[brad0]

IOW Wayland doesn't really improve your desktop performance.

It doesn't. Worse it just creates a whole new set of issues.

It's the usual lets create something new and shiny to replace the old, but learn nothing from the past and make all kinds of stupid design decisions.

[Volta]

It doesn't. Worse it just creates a whole new set of issues.

It's the usual lets create something new and shiny to replace the old, but learn nothing from the past and make all kinds of stupid design decisions.

Care to elaborate? Or perhaps, you're just a moron and have no idea what you're talking about?

[jacob]

I don't think he's trolling. X is constantly getting bashed because it's bloated, outdated and such. And yet, you remove X out of the equation, insert the new, modern solution and performance barely moves. It's obvious something doesn't add up.

"Bloated" doesn't mean slow. The Linux kernel is certainly "bloated"; at the same time it's also the fastest general-purpose kernel on the market.

Secondly, apps such as Firefox in fact barely touch the X protocol at all. They don't use Xlib for rendering, or the everything-is-a-server-side-window approach of traditional X development. Instead they rely on DRI2 and OpenGL (the same as on Wayland), are not network transparent and do all the heavy lifting client-side (like on Wayland). Firefox's usage of X is essentially limited to "kindly open a main window for me, and now please get out of the way".

Wayland does bring an enormous performance advantage over traditional X, but most modern apps already enjoy most those benefits. Wayland's chief benefits in this context are getting rid of all the old cruft that is not used anymore (at least not on Linux) but that you have to support to be called X; better security by being container-friendly by design, and future proofing.

[sdack]

Good luck with this legacy software. When are they planning to release the next version? Oh, it's maintenance only. X and security seems like contradictions and while you have nothing to prove against Wayland I recommend to stop spreading FUD. Wayland is much smoother right now, but it's window managers job to give you better performance.

We don't need luck. Despite all rumours about X11's demise have users not given up using it. So what did Wayland do wrong when it set out to replace it and still hasn't done so?

I suppose you still don't have a good answer to this question, and we will continue seeing replies containing excuses and how it's other people's fault and how they first have to put in work before Wayland can take credit for it... Those replies are just so dumb and dishonest that it's sad.

Unless you stop dreaming and connect to reality to face the facts will Wayland stay more dead than X11 ever was.

[Volta]

We don't need luck. Despite all rumours about X11's demise have users not given up using it. So what did Wayland do wrong when it set out to replace it and still hasn't done so?

I suppose you still don't have a good answer to this question, and we will continue seeing replies containing excuses and how it's other people's fault and how they first have to put in work before Wayland can take credit for it... Those replies are just so dumb and dishonest that it's sad.

Unless you stop dreaming and connect to reality to face the facts will Wayland stay more dead than X11 ever was.

You'll give up when developers stop touching this old, insecure mess. Wayland isn't X drop in replacement, so by thinking it is you're just proving you have no idea what you're talking about. It belongs to Gnome and KDE to make feature parity with X. In a much more cleaner, safer, smarter and more efficient way. Wayland is just a protocol and if you can't understand such simple fact we have nothing to talk about. Wayland is more dead? That's funny, because it's the area where ALL of the development currently is. Xorg is in maintenance and nobody will ever resurrect it. Keep dreaming.

[lakerssuperman]

We don't need luck. Despite all rumours about X11's demise have users not given up using it. So what did Wayland do wrong when it set out to replace it and still hasn't done so?

I suppose you still don't have a good answer to this question, and we will continue seeing replies containing excuses and how it's other people's fault and how they first have to put in work before Wayland can take credit for it... Those replies are just so dumb and dishonest that it's sad.

Unless you stop dreaming and connect to reality to face the facts will Wayland stay more dead than X11 ever was.

What? If you run the Wayland session on something like Fedora or Ubuntu, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. I'm typing this from my Fedora 31 Gnome Wayland session. Things just work for the most part. Major applications like Firefox now have excellent Wayland support. The toolkits have caught up.

To me this transition feels a lot like the KDE 4.x early releases. The developers cautioned that it wasn't ready, but everyone jumped the gun and deployed it and then everyone turned around and said why isn't this ready. Wayland was a huge undertaking that everyone involved cautioned would take a long time to really make happen. Wayland has been useable for awhile now, but we are really starting to see it stand right next to an X based environment without teething pains.

X will live on as it is for a good while longer, but Wayland is the way forward for graphics on Linux. This might have that "new shiny" feel, but if you've been following it over the years, you know that major players are invested in it and have been steadily pushing it forward. From a platform standpoint, it's one of the last big pieces. Linux will now be Wayland, Pulseaudio, systemd based that things like Flatpaks can take advantage of for security and deployability.

I understand the apprehension about reinventing the wheel with a lot of projects, but Wayland is the future and will only continue to iterate and improve.

[pal666]

I don't think he's trolling. X is constantly getting bashed because it's bloated, outdated and such. And yet, you remove X out of the equation, insert the new, modern solution and performance barely moves. It's obvious something doesn't add up.

lol, you constantly bash wayland because it's not ready and when wayland wins you move goalposts

[angrypie]

MoDeRn dEsKtOp: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller/issues/4

[pal666]

Wayland is a disappointment

for you? what did you invest in wayland other than your stupidity?

[pal666]

One thing: a decade after its inception, it still does nothing for performance

where was x11 a decade after 1987?

Fwiw, systemd is 2 years younger and has already achieved a lot more.

fwiw, systemd is not a protocol, it is an implementation