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X.Org vs. Wayland Browser Performance With Firefox + Chrome

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  • #81
    Originally posted by duby229 View Post

    I certainly was around. I specifically remember desktop compositing with 3d animation years before the same was possible on -any- other desktop. I could spin a cube to switch virtual desktops, I could burn a window shut with flames.... At the time it was fantastic an -NO- other windowing system came anywhere close for years afterwards.... It was way ahead of its time.
    Then you remember all the problems compositing desktops had back then. Ever tried to play a video game while under compositing for example? Or a video? There were many issues back then, that were fixed by using DRI and other hacks, because X11 was old and obsolete. 15 years later X11 is polished enough to be decent, so it may appear on the surface that Wayland wasn't needed, but modern X11 is almost like nothing like it was 15 years ago. And devs no longer want to deal with it in the future. Why is it so hard to grasp?

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    • #82
      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      I've just spent two hours playing with Wayland. The only usable environments for it are Gnome and KDE. If you don't like them, Wayland is 100% unusable for any serious desktop use.

      For me personally the only sane desktop environment for Linux in 2020 is XFCE but it doesn't support Wayland in any shape or form. Even xfce4-panel doesn't start under it. In the past I loved KDE3 but KDE5 IMO is an abomination.
      So, you are hating Wayland because you want to use XFCE with it and it doesn't run under Wayland? So you come up with various pretenses to claim Wayland isn't ready? LOL you sound bitter.

      By the way, why XFCE is "the only sane desktop environment"? Define "sane" please....

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      • #83
        Originally posted by brad0 View Post

        It doesn't. Worse it just creates a whole new set of issues.

        It's the usual lets create something new and shiny to replace the old, but learn nothing from the past and make all kinds of stupid design decisions.
        If us software developers all thought like you do, nothing would have improved since the 70s....

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        • #84
          Originally posted by birdie View Post
          This is a decade-old list of half truths, FUD, obsolete issues solved long ago and very occasionally sensible points. Wayland applications don't need to implement "their own font anti-aliasing". They use Freetype, which is, among other things, the same engine as on iOS, and of course it has a system-wide settings API. Re DPI settings, it is of course up to toolkits (not applications) because by design, Wayland is all-client-side. Unless you want to do rendering in the server (and there are extremely important reasons why you shouldn't) then it has to be handled on the app side, that is by the toolkit. DPI is of course set system-wide but the rendering adjustments need to be done at the toolkit level. Once again, that's how it's done on both Windows and Mac. From the plethora of half-assed toolkits from the X11 era there are essentially only two left, GTK and Qt, and both ALREADY support DPI scaling so that point is definitely moot. By the way Qt's future as a FOSS-relevant framework is currently in doubt due to the uncertainty regarding its future licensing, so potentially there may really be only one toolkit to worry about. Regarding the game-related issues, I played a couple of games recently and didn't experience any of the so-called problems described there. And so on. Let me know when an actual problem caused by Wayland really arises (NB: "that's not how it was done in X" or "it doesn't work on Xenix 1.0" don't count as problems).
          Last edited by jacob; 11 April 2020, 04:02 AM.

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          • #85
            Input lag on a Wayland compositor? I have been playing Counter Strike GO (too much admittedly) on Gnome/XWayland for months and I don't have any problems (Arch Linux, Gnome 3.36 Wayland session) . On the contrary, my current rank is Gold Nova Master (here's some context: https://totalcsgo.com/ranks) and I can assure you that you can't play on that level if input lag would be a significant problem. If the Gnome dev-crew can figure out how to reduce input lag even further I would expect that to be great news for my ranking :-)

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            • #86
              Originally posted by mppix View Post

              Add Ubuntu, Suse, and Arch/Manjaro and you have 99% of the installed systems running a GUI.
              OpenSUSE does not enable Wayland by default. It is only available as an option, which user has to enable.

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              • #87
                Whatever people here may think or like and dislike doesn't matter in the end. As far as I can see x.org X11 has no real crew of developers anymore behind it, and thats defining it's future. Yes, it's still sort of maintained, but that will end sometime. We've already reached the point where no new releases get out of the door, and the expert developers seem to spend their time on polishing newer and better solutions. I expect that parts of X11 (that are only needed in pure X11 sessions) will fall into disrepair in the future. Not this year, but maybe next year or the year after. You can see where this is going...

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by Hibbelharry View Post
                  As far as I can see x.org X11 has no real crew of developers anymore behind it...
                  Where I can read this... news?

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                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Volta View Post
                    Are you planning to fix it or just being curious?
                    Fix what? There's no input lag.

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                    • #90
                      Originally posted by arokh View Post

                      Fix what? There's no input lag.
                      What distro are you using? And there is input lag. If the only game you played is solitaire or chess you may not notice it. However, I'm playing instagib in Quake Live against nightmare bots and have around 50 - 70% accuracy (not so high against stupid bots), so for me it's noticeable. I heard there's no hardware cursor support in Gnome under Wayland yet, so that may be the case.
                      Last edited by Volta; 11 April 2020, 10:43 AM.

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