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Ubuntu 19.10 Is The First Time We've Seen (X)Wayland Gaming Performance Match X.Org

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  • #31
    Originally posted by ernstp View Post

    SDL2 is super special AFAIK. After it loads, it looks for other SDL2 libraries available and if they're newer it dynamically replaces itself with that!
    yeah, you use the SDL_DYNAMIC_API env var to override it.
    see:
    https://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/file/1b873...ADME-dynapi.md
    source:
    http://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/file/1b8736..._dynapi.c#l292

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    • #32
      SDL2 on Wayland does not support HiDPI yet and that's a huge issue for me. Because it takes in Windows being created at 4 times the size of the screen, if your desktop is in HiDPI "mode" :/

      Also SDL2 still have not implemented client side decorations for Wayland support. That really sucks.

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      • #33
        I still can't play my moba on Gnome Wayland, as the cursor stutters due to GPU load.
        I also don't like playing with compositor vsync. Without automatic DRM leasing for both Wayland and xwayland fullscreen, xorg with unredirect will always be superior.
        Michael's benchmark proly shows performance penalty of Mutter Xorg vs. Wayland.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Vasant1234 View Post
          So after 10+ years of development, you can barely show even 5% gaming improvement. I think it would be hard for anyone to claim this project as being a great success.
          Wayland is not about performance.
          Wayland is about more simplicity and better quality.
          Performance is just a by-product of the better arquitecture.
          That said, it is not yet a finnished product, so performance will surely improve with optimizations and with software being better prepared for it.
          This is still in it's infancy.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by lumks View Post
            SDL2 on Wayland does not support HiDPI yet and that's a huge issue for me. Because it takes in Windows being created at 4 times the size of the screen, if your desktop is in HiDPI "mode" :/

            Also SDL2 still have not implemented client side decorations for Wayland support. That really sucks.
            I think the problem is HiDPI for Xwayland specifically, and yes it's annoying. But I've seen that there's work going in there...

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            • #36
              Most games are fine on GNOME 3.34 Wayland now, but there are still some that have serious frame pacing issues. Dark Souls II: SotFS through Proton is one such game. It's a stuttering mess in an (x)Wayland-session but works perfectly using X11. And no, the stutters will not show up in benchmarks but are blatantly obvious to the eye.

              Not quite sure what causes it but that recent blog post by van Vugt mentions some issues that need work that could potentially fix this.

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              • #37
                That's some real good progress. I'm curious what the benchmarks might look like at higher resolutions.

                Originally posted by Vasant1234 View Post
                So after 10+ years of development, you can barely show even 5% gaming improvement. I think it would be hard for anyone to claim this project as being a great success.
                Just the type of absurdity I'd expect from an X11 supporter. Why would something that depends on xserver would run faster than it? That's like running an electric motor powered directly by a combustion engine and then complaining that it isn't outputting more power.
                The fact there is any performance increase at all is actually remarkable as far as I'm concerned.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Vasant1234 View Post
                  So after 10+ years of development, you can barely show even 5% gaming improvement. I think it would be hard for anyone to claim this project as being a great success.
                  Wayland has nothing to do with gaming performance neither was created for that reason and it is a great success since it fixes the problems it was meant to fix.

                  The only news here is that it now can handle X applications at least as fast as running on a native Xorg setting and show improvements in some areas probably due to less composite+damage overdraws since is that is handle by Wayland in this setting.

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                  • #39
                    The big reason we were given for Wayland was that X.org was just way too slow so we needed to have developers spend years of time which could be spent on other things reinventing the wheel.

                    Now that we know that this is a lie. what is the point of Wayland again?

                    Don't say security, that could have been fixed with a very simple interwindow security permissions extension.

                    Linux already had a perfectly useable and well designed Window system in X. I have looked at the X.org source code and could find nothing wrong with it. It just seems like a big excuse to reinvent the wheel. The X is bad nonsense is an urban tale that has been retold again and again, without basis in fact, to the point many people who say this really have no idea what they are talking about and just heard someone else say it on a message board and keep parroting it. Some of this started with Unix Haters Handbook, which is a long outdated book from 1988, almost everything in it is outdated, inaccurate or insignificant, which was meant as satire and even when it was written was knowingly inaccurate because it was not meant to taken too seriously. For instance, this was the origin of "X is big". Compared to what? The X servers size is quite small compared to Windows memory usage. Maybe X was big on 1988 hardware but any GUI system is going to be big on that hardware. On todays hardware 4 MB for the X server code is nothing. A similar thing has been happening with systemd. Almost none of what systemd-haters say about it is true. They just hear something on a message board and parrot it.

                    So this whole Wayland effort was based on a big pile of lies. Its just astonishing a lie can lead to such massive exertions of energy and unnecessary labor and effort.
                    Neraxa
                    Phoronix Member
                    Last edited by Neraxa; 29 October 2019, 09:34 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Neraxa View Post
                      The big reason we were given for Wayland was that X.org was just way too slow so we needed to have developers spend years of time which could be spent on other things reinventing the wheel.

                      Now that we know that this is a lie. what is the point of Wayland again?

                      Don't say security, that could have been fixed with a very simple interwindow security permissions extension.

                      Linux already had a perfectly useable and well designed Window system in X. I have looked at the X.org source code and could find nothing wrong with it. It just seems like a big excuse to reinvent the wheel. The X is bad nonsense is an urban tale that has been retold again and again, without basis in fact, to the point many people who say this really have no idea what they are talking about and just heard someone else say it on a message board and keep parroting it. Some of this started with Unix Haters Handbook, which is a long outdated book from 1988, almost everything in it is outdated, inaccurate or insignificant, which was meant as satire and even when it was written was knowingly inaccurate because it was not meant to taken too seriously. For instance, this was the origin of "X is big". Compared to what? The X servers size is quite small compared to Windows memory usage. Maybe X was big on 1988 hardware but any GUI system is going to be big on that hardware. On todays hardware 4 MB for the X server code is nothing. A similar thing has been happening with systemd. Almost none of what systemd-haters say about it is true. They just hear something on a message board and parrot it.

                      So this whole Wayland effort was based on a big pile of lies. Its just astonishing a lie can lead to such massive exertions of energy and unnecessary labor and effort.
                      We all knew keith packard was crazy anyway and probably gave up on X for the fun of writing Wayland /sarcasm.

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