Wayland's Weston Lands A Pipewire Plug-In As New Remote Desktop Streaming Option

[Weasel]

Sounds like you are grasping at straws tbh.

Spoken like a true single-tasking mobile muppet.

At the risk of repeating myself, here's an actual example: You have an app, or an AutoHotkey script, ran under Wine (of course...) which does overlay display on another window to help automate tasks and provide better information to the user (because the app itself is slightly limited). It needs to move with the window and track it for the best user experience. It needs to know the window position, not even its own but the other app's window.

And this is just a basic example...

Not everyone is a filthy casual user who just uses a full screen browser or full screen office app or uses his desktop like a mobile shit experience. Some of us are power users.

[boxie]

Spoken like a true single-tasking mobile muppet.

At the risk of repeating myself, here's an actual example: You have an app, or an AutoHotkey script, ran under Wine (of course...) which does overlay display on another window to help automate tasks and provide better information to the user (because the app itself is slightly limited). It needs to move with the window and track it for the best user experience. It needs to know the window position, not even its own but the other app's window.

And this is just a basic example...

Not everyone is a filthy casual user who just uses a full screen browser or full screen office app or uses his desktop like a mobile shit experience. Some of us are power users.

"Power user"
It honestly sounds like you go out of your way to make life hard for yourself.

I do appreciate that not all workflows will be supported in the modern desktop era. You are gonna have to use that power user ingenuity of yours to come up with an alternative solution.

[Weasel]

"Power user"
It honestly sounds like you go out of your way to make life hard for yourself.

I do appreciate that not all workflows will be supported in the modern desktop era. You are gonna have to use that power user ingenuity of yours to come up with an alternative solution.

An alternative that existed for 30 years? It's called X11.

Not sure why you get so butthurt over me pointing out facts where Wayland is simply inferior and unusable and will forever remain so because it's by design, since people asked for it.

[boxie]

An alternative that existed for 30 years? It's called X11.

Not sure why you get so butthurt over me pointing out facts where Wayland is simply inferior and unusable and will forever remain so because it's by design, since people asked for it.

*giggle* you think I am butt hurt when as a normal everyday desktop user Wayland the future is what I want - hehehehe.

I think that in your case, the solution is called "just use windows", since you are harping on about using Wine.

and yes, Wayland make sure that processes cannot impinge on each other, more security == better.

[davidbepo]

References and citations, please....

use over network

running applications as root

gnome-shell restarting

i could go on

[Weasel]

*giggle* you think I am butt hurt when as a normal everyday desktop user Wayland the future is what I want - hehehehe.

Like it has been for the past 10 years, right.

You are butthurt because you thought that nobody could come up with anything against Wayland compared to X11, and when they do, you keep ignoring it and then keep asking the same question, as if to remind yourself that "yes, there's really nothing essential Wayland misses compared to X11" so you can sleep better at night.

I think that in your case, the solution is called "just use windows", since you are harping on about using Wine.

No thanks, don't want that spyware bloated crap on my PC. The Windows platform is good and all, but an OS is much more than a platform.

and yes, Wayland make sure that processes cannot impinge on each other, more security == better.

If you don't trust your own processes that run under your own user you have bigger problems than some pseudo-security/privacy bullshit.

[boxie]

Like it has been for the past 10 years, right.

You are butthurt because you thought that nobody could come up with anything against Wayland compared to X11, and when they do, you keep ignoring it and then keep asking the same question, as if to remind yourself that "yes, there's really nothing essential Wayland misses compared to X11" so you can sleep better at night.

No thanks, don't want that spyware bloated crap on my PC. The Windows platform is good and all, but an OS is much more than a platform.

If you don't trust your own processes that run under your own user you have bigger problems than some pseudo-security/privacy bullshit.

I am under no illusions that Wayland has a different feature set, is not yet as stable as X11 or as battle tested. I am fully aware that implementations across DEs are of mixed and varying quality.

I know there is work to do. We all do. That work is happening and everyday we get closer.

It's still the future, now matter how much you argue with strangers on the internet.

And you cannot trust the processes running on your own machine, that's how exploits happen. Software being co-opted into doing stuff it shouldn't means your box is now owned by someone who is not you and now you are running around being all butt hurt because you have told everyone "I know what I am doing".

[Weasel]

I am under no illusions that Wayland has a different feature set, is not yet as stable as X11 or as battle tested. I am fully aware that implementations across DEs are of mixed and varying quality.

I know there is work to do. We all do. That work is happening and everyday we get closer.

You're missing the point. It's not missing work. If it did, I wouldn't bash it. It's by design which means it will NEVER get fixed because it will never get accepted, even if someone were to write such a patch and do the entire "work". (in fact, some did, AFAIK).

I don't talk trash on projects with lack of manpower. I talk shit on projects whose lack of feature is due to retarded maintainers and their "design vision" even when someone else did the work for them.

It's still the future

Except it's not. X11 sucks, but Wayland is just unusable.

And you cannot trust the processes running on your own machine, that's how exploits happen. Software being co-opted into doing stuff it shouldn't means your box is now owned by someone who is not you and now you are running around being all butt hurt because you have told everyone "I know what I am doing".

If you open foreign files from the internet then the responsibility is on you to isolate your app if you don't trust the source. Don't tell me bullshit like "trust" doesn't exist, because everyone trusts their distros and use trust in certificates, so it's the same thing here.

For applications with access to the internet, of course, you should run them as their own user yourself. Old school unix permissions.

[Tomin]

An alternative that existed for 30 years? It's called X11.

Not sure why you get so butthurt over me pointing out facts where Wayland is simply inferior and unusable and will forever remain so because it's by design, since people asked for it.

I think he meant alternative to that autoit scrpit you mentioned. I bet a power user can come up with alternative solutions to do things efficiently even if the old way no longer works.

[boxie]

You're missing the point. It's not missing work. If it did, I wouldn't bash it. It's by design which means it will NEVER get fixed because it will never get accepted, even if someone were to write such a patch and do the entire "work". (in fact, some did, AFAIK).

I don't talk trash on projects with lack of manpower. I talk shit on projects whose lack of feature is due to retarded maintainers and their "design vision" even when someone else did the work for them.

Except it's not. X11 sucks, but Wayland is just unusable.

If you open foreign files from the internet then the responsibility is on you to isolate your app if you don't trust the source. Don't tell me bullshit like "trust" doesn't exist, because everyone trusts their distros and use trust in certificates, so it's the same thing here.

For applications with access to the internet, of course, you should run them as their own user yourself. Old school unix permissions.

I am not missing the point. I 100% agree with the design decisions of Wayland. What you want to do is not a supported use case.

As far as I understand it (and here my understanding is a little shaky), Window managers still have control over where windows are placed on the screen, it's just the apps that are running that no longer have access to that, so maybe what you need is (instead of a bunch of hacky X11 scripts/programming) is a small Wayland Window Manager that can move the windows around as you see fit?

WL_ROOTS might be the project for you here - to get your window positioning sorted. As for manipulating the program, you would have to do something different, like write a windows native app that controls it.

Now onto the problem of trust - it is a hard one to solve.

It used to be that you could trust everything on your computer, if you got a virus it was because you put it on there.

Now we have lots of software on our computers that may or may not be exposed to the Internet and may or may not be exposed to the local network.

Attack vectors are varied and many. You might have someone else on your network get owned, which allows that machine to run some RCE on everyone on the local network and suddenly you are pwned.

So many ways to get pwned.

We can make that harder for attackers though, which is a good thing.

It does however break a few use cases, like yours.