Wayland's Weston Lands A Pipewire Plug-In As New Remote Desktop Streaming Option

[microcode]

Nobody has ported dwm to Wayland, and it's impossible to properly port it while following the suckless philosophy.

That's actually sorta something I'm working on this weekend. I have a long running fork of dwm I call lwdm, and until recently it's been too frustrating to use any existing Wayland compositor, since they've been built without tiling/fullscreen/mono window management in mind. Sway, however, correctly communicates with applications not to draw unnecessary decorations on the client side, and does a great number of things very well. Sway is based on wlroots, which means that maintaining a fork actually seems pretty feasible. The other option is to start from the wlroots demo compositor, but I think that may end up being more work.

This weekend I'm starting on cutting out the parts of Sway that are not dwm-like (or just copying ldwm into the wlroots demo compositor, and massaging them together). I don't think the end result file will actually be that much larger than ldwm, and the upshot is that I won't need any guesswork to time the input and presentation events properly. In upstream dwm, window dragging is artificially limited to 60Hz with an unsynchronized timer, and on my 144Hz and 165Hz systems I have to edit the main C file in order to change that frequency; and unless I set the interval to at least twice the refresh rate of my monitor, I can notice the jitter inherent in using an unsynchronized timer for this. On Wayland, I can take in as many events as I want on that drag, and actually respond to them at presentation time (which minimizes latency, eliminates jitter, and reduces overall work done).

When I'm done, I think I'll probably have a hard time telling the difference between my X ldwm, and the wlroots-based one (aside from the aforementioned improvements).

I think X11 is one of the best things about U*IX systems, and trying to kill it will remove a huge chunk of their superiority. I have never seen anything that can match X11's flexibility.

I too love X! In terms of "flexibility", Wayland has it considerably beat (it's one of the things people complain about when it comes to Wayland). I've continued to use X until recently because it was still better than the experience in Wayland compositors. I recently switched to Sway, and I'm slowly cutting out everything that isn't like my dwm fork (ldwm), which I've been using since 2012.

No upstream support means no support as of now. And since I'm supposed to rely on Xwayland so much, why wouldn't I just use X11 instead?

Here's a recording of an X window in OBS on sway; I get that's not what you're talking about, but in principle it shouldn't be that hard to write the capture plugin, and it doesn't involve "porting" the application in any meaningful way. And even if it did, it's a Qt 5 application, so it's been 99% done on Wayland for the better part of a decade.

https://youtu.be/fvINshFkMfE

On the topic of XWayland reliance, I understand the frustration, but these things take time.
As of now, Wayland compositors have been the best-behaved X compositors I've ever seen, for whatever that's worth.

[Hibbelharry]

Ok, I'll adjust my mental model from something that does what it must do (xorg) to something that doesn't do what it must do (wayland).

It's more like:
Ok, I'll adjust my mental model from something that can't really do what it must do (xorg) to something that does do what it must do (wayland).

What a nonsenical post you wrote, there are really no arguments in it. Nice trolling. I just turned it around to be correct.

[Vistaus]

Actually this is not true. X‘s Network transparency doesn‘t work since many years ago

It does work for kpedersen because AFAIR he's using an old version of Red Hat.

[Guest]

It's more like:
Ok, I'll adjust my mental model from something that can't really do what it must do (xorg) to something that does do what it must do (wayland).

What a nonsenical post you wrote, there are really no arguments in it. Nice trolling. I just turned it around to be correct.

Are you sure what wayland is? I think you are talking about pure "air".

[Vistaus]

Are you sure what wayland is?

To me it is. It's not perfect by any means (Arcan ftw!), but for me it's much better than X11 in most cases.

[Guest]

To me it is. It's not perfect by any means (Arcan ftw!), but for me it's much better than X11 in most cases.

I can use Xorg in all cases.

[smitty3268]

Sounds like you are grasping at straws tbh.

It reminds me of when the Windows XP service pack came out, and everybody complained about how terrible the security prompts were because all the old crap software assumed everyone was an admin.

It does suck (though in this case there are fewer pain points) but there's not really any alternative to just dealing with it unless you're ok with bad security, and that's not something the default user experience should allow.

[smitty3268]

You could also skip out on a compositor, and get even better performance.

Modern hardware provides it for free.

Wayland was originally used most heavily in the embedded/SoC industry where being lightweight is much more of a priority than it is on desktops. If it was forcing anything inefficient that would have been resolved long ago.

Don't mistake compositing with fancy shadows/transparency/etc. Those require extra resources, but there's nothing that requires your compositor to do that if it wants to remain lightweight.

[Vistaus]

I can use Xorg in all cases.

Who says I can't? I just meant that a few things work generally fine, but can be improved still, not that those things make me want to use Xorg again. And nothing wrong with things needing to be improved or did you think your precious X11 didn't need improvement when it was first released?

[boxie]

It reminds me of when the Windows XP service pack came out, and everybody complained about how terrible the security prompts were because all the old crap software assumed everyone was an admin.

It does suck (though in this case there are fewer pain points) but there's not really any alternative to just dealing with it unless you're ok with bad security, and that's not something the default user experience should allow.

I definitely agree that annoying user experiences are not in securities best interests. At the same time, having little animated "pets" that sit on top of your application windows and allow their creators to siphon off your personal data are not great things either.

There is a balance to be struck between allowing people to do things and stopping them from doing stupid stuff.