Prolific Red Hat Developer Starts Up "Wayland Itches" Project

[shmerl]

No, you are nonsensical because you are redefining the word 'ignore' and considering out of tree kernel modules as "ignoring" the kernel. Words have meanings. Use them properly and follow the requirements. Otherwise, it only creates problems.

Not interested in demagoguery and defense of Nvidia's mess with claims of Linux support. Claims don't make them support Linux properly. Come back to this topic with your claims when they'll upstream their driver.

[starshipeleven]

Wayland was never intended as a replacement for X.

That's the article writer's own opinion, which is wrong.

The developer said in the blog linked by the very fucking article:

"They got the headline wrong, though, it's not a new X server, it's a tiny display server + compositing manager."

it's not a new X server != never intended as a replacement for X

it's not a new X server = this is a display server using a different protocol

[DanL]

Claims don't make them support Linux properly. Come back to this topic with your claims when they'll upstream their driver.

I never claimed that. Come back to this topic when you learn how to read and write properly.

[renox]

As much as I love X, networking should not be a part of your windowing system, and solutions like VNC are the right way to go.

What stupid "by fiat" decree! As much as I like webpages, networking shouldn't be a part of your solution: VNC and Word are the right way to view documents.

[miabrahams]

You can, because Nvidia ignores Linux. It's not the job of compositor developers to clean up the mess that Nvidia created. I have no respect for Nvidia and their practices, but if you are buying their hardware with broken drivers - do it at your own risk. That's my point. Developers should not support that in Wayland case.

Nvidia developers have contributed EGLStreams backends for both Mutter and KWin. In what way do they ignore Linux?

[Weasel]

This is ridiculous. It is called process isolation, and it is a highly desired feature.

No, you can't trust your own processes. Because your 'own' process is actually a closed source game or a 3D renderer, and you have no contol over the source code. Or it might be a trojan.

An OS which can run untrusted processes with no security issues is a great benefit for the consumers.

If you can't trust a specific process then run it as another user. It's basic unix 101.

If process isolation is not an issue, then perhaps ZombieLoad is also a non-issue. I mean, ZombieLoad is just about not trusting your own processes. And perhaps computer viruses are a non-issue either because, well, they are just some user processes, and all those should be fully trusted.

If that's what ZombieLoad does, yeah, it's a non-issue. But unfortunately it can also read kernel memory or memory from outside of the VM, so no, it's dangerous.

[Weasel]

To be honest, in my opinion it shows that all this security-related hysteria is pointless, since this "protection" can be bypassed one way or anther. In fact, it only causes problems with various applications that worked well under X11 but are half-working or not-working under Wayland.

Amen, this sums up why Wayland will forever be garbage.

[Weasel]

Wait, did you just criticize X for the first time? I thought you always thought there was nothing wrong with it?

I honestly don't remember ever saying X11 is perfect. It sucks in many areas, but it is useable. I just consider Wayland beyond hope because it's literally unuseable lacking essential features. All the pseudo-security in the world isn't going to save it from that.

It's like being forced to use Windows 10, which is terrible, but at least it's better than a system (Wayland in this analogy) which has no internet connection at all "for safety".

[shmerl]

I never claimed that.

Then stop wasting others' time here, defending Nvidia's foul behavior. Back on topic - compositor developers should not clean up Nvidia's mess. And if users want Linux support, they should use hardware that has it properly.

[duby229]

Outside of the Wayland fiasco (EGL vs GBM) can you define NVIDIA’s broken drivers? I haven’t had a problem in several years using their driver for multiple cards on my workstation for computer graphics work (an industry where AMD GPU’s will not be making a surge in any time soon). If you’re referring to their choices of ending support for “older” hardware or refusing to open source the driver, that’s one thing. But it’s also their prerogative as a company to choose what they support and for how long. Doesn’t mean I like it, but I accept that’s the way things are for the time being. As it is on X, the stuff works great.

Cheers,
Mike

Lets, start with xrender acceleration, it's really bad. Nvidia -needed- to redesign their 2d engine support decades ago and never did. By far the very slowest desktop performance of all modern hardware out there. Run any xrender benchmark for proof. The other thing is that twinview is horribly buggy, if you've evr used dual monitors on nVidia then you must be aware of it, everything from horrible unfixable tearing to fullscreen apps can only stretch across all screens. Their multimonitor support is an absolute fucking disaster. And then the most recent fiasco was the whole wayland support thing....It has so many bugs that are -decades- old, it's just stupid....