KDE Now Has Virtual Desktop Support On Wayland

[Britoid]

well, when you login and give up because you don't like how the defaults appear it's your fault

my KDE desktop has nothing in common with what the developers find beauty
but other then GNOME it's configureable

A desktop should look stylish out the box. KDE to me still has the Windows Vista-esque look and the applications remind me of Win32 apps.

Yes, I know you can change it but I have better things to do. GNOME apps may lack features but they certainly from a UX point of view look fantastic compared to KDE apps.

[cybertraveler]

Unfortunately I learned pretty early on that it isn't always about what you "enjoy" writing in. You have to use the right tool for the job. Having and maintaining a massive Python -> X11 binding layer just to use a specific language is not a good use of anyone's time. Thus C is still *the* first class language for most things. Not even C++ seems to have overtaken it for a number of technical reasons.

I recommend learn enough C so that you can do what you want. Yes, everyone walks away feeling a little violated but at least something has been done XD.

True. I agree. I've used many languages. I actually know a little C and Python. I can't bring myself to get into using C++ though. I can see why C++ is popular for large userland applications like browsers and game engines; those are the domains where it is most suited I think. However I'm hoping that at some point a language will effectively dethrone C++. There are already a number of languages chipping away at C++. Namely Rust & C#.

Interesting how Apple never seemed to have heavily adopted C++. Or at least, they never seem to go out of their way to use it. They used Objective C heavily and then later built Swift and started using that.

Also interesting how C is popular in the GNU world and is often used instead of C++, even for programs that would more typically (at least on Windows) be programmed in C++.

I think there are many devs out there that share my sentiment towards C++. Obviously there's many who don't also.

[boxie]

A desktop should look stylish out the box. KDE to me still has the Windows Vista-esque look and the applications remind me of Win32 apps.

Yes, I know you can change it but I have better things to do. GNOME apps may lack features but they certainly from a UX point of view look fantastic compared to KDE apps.

not sure when you used KDE last, or vista - pretty sure that it might have changed a little since then

[jpg44]

It seems like there is a lot of wheel reinventing going on with wayland: badly. X11 has had virtual desktops since the 1980s. Plus Linux had a perfectly fine window system with X11. Plus there is a lot that Wayland does not have like app<->server network transparency, something which is an invaluable feature on X11, plus the fact X11 is simply better designed and more follows Unix philosophy by keeping Window Manager code seperate from the Display Server which helped cut down on competing and incompatible implementations of the display protocol. With Wayland, the display server and window manager is one big ugly ball of code, which introduces the chance of incompatible and broken display protocol implementations, and if the Window Manager part crashes, more likely since it has more complex code, it brings down the whole session, whereas with X11 you could restart the window manager.

Maybe people should spend resources on something we don't have, like decent voice recognition and OCR on Linux, rather than reinventing poorer and badly designed re-implementations of what we already have?

With all of the man hours on Wayland we get exactly nothing that we have not had before, and we actually have LESS than we had before. Imagine if these people were to spend their time working on something we don't have like voice recognition and good OCR. What a waste of time.

[Britoid]

not sure when you used KDE last, or vista - pretty sure that it might have changed a little since then

Sorry, if you remove aero, set the taskbar font and icon size to max and add some shadows you'll get KDE from Vista

[jpg44]

Unfortunately I learned pretty early on that it isn't always about what you "enjoy" writing in. You have to use the right tool for the job. Having and maintaining a massive Python -> X11 binding layer just to use a specific language is not a good use of anyone's time. Thus C is still *the* first class language for most things. Not even C++ seems to have overtaken it for a number of technical reasons.

I recommend learn enough C so that you can do what you want. Yes, everyone walks away feeling a little violated but at least something has been done XD.

The right way to do C bindings is to have them automatically generated and not write any interface files at all. Python and other languages had a very poor C binding facility however but now with Python there are better alternatives now such as Boost Python, that can automatically generate the C interface by using LLVM to parse C header files and generating the interface between C and Python automatically. Part of the problem was GCC and C compilers which refused to allow the C code to be parsed into an XML backend and other backends without a great deal of trouble, LLVMs modular design finally made it more easy to parse the C header code and generate interface files automatically. With this, the days of having to write interfaces is mostly gone.

[skeevy420]

How dare you!
kwin tiling scripts are not the same. Fortunately, the Plasma desktop can run with other WMs as well. Not on wayland obviously and we're missing the benefits of kwin compositing in this case. But it's something.

Depending on what one is trying to accomplish, they can be good enough. I don't really care for tiling all of the time (that's why I use Plasma), but the KWin scripts work good enough for me to setup a tiled system monitor activity and a tiled activity for text editing. One of my first Plasma tweaks is to change the top left corner from Present Windows to Activity Manager...I wish I had all that setup to show y'all but I plan on ditching my current week old Antergos setup in another week or two so I haven't bothered with all my little tweaks...

You know, I've never tried this, but would Plasma+Sway or Way Cooler work for Plasma tiling on Wayland without a KWin script?

And other desktops can run KWin. I prefer XFCE with KWin myself. Makes for a nice minimal desktop with eye candy.

[skeevy420]

Yes, I know you can change it but I have better things to do. GNOME apps may lack features but they certainly from a UX point of view look fantastic compared to KDE apps.

That's where I disagree. Gnome apps are cluttered messes thanks to that wonky header bar. Minimalist programs can work fine with them, more advanced programs look horrible and moving everything to the hamburger just adds an extra click/step in navigating options and settings.

[Guest]

Another thing is that I really don't like C++. I use plenty of apps that use it, but I tend towards apps that use a language I prefer so that I can patch them myself if I want. Gnome, Enlightenment and many other window managers I've used are written in C, sometimes with parts written in other languages (like Python). Much nicer IMO.

Try moving to software from Suckless, as they're devoted to writing everything in C (and they nailed a perfect environment for X11 IMO).

[cybertraveler]

Try moving to software from Suckless, as they're devoted to writing everything in C (and they nailed a perfect environment for X11 IMO).

I like their philosophical writings: https://suckless.org/philosophy/