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Wayland's Weston Is In Severe Need Of More Development Help

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  • #11
    Originally posted by R41N3R View Post

    The news mentions Weston, not Wayland as a protocol directly, so I wouldn't assume that this has an influence on the Wayland adoption of other compositors. I've switched away from X11 a long time ago. The open issues are usually in the toolkits, xwayland, compositors, browsers, applications, ...
    While that is true, Weston is an important, maybe even vital part of wayland. It's supposed to be an example/reference compositor for others to use as a guideline to help them when they are developing their own, whether it be the first steps of development or somewhere along the way. In it's current state it seems to outright fail to do so.

    Weston is a part of the Wayland project, as in officially speaking. It was always my understanding that they would have more or less the same developers. I imagine these developers have been too busy with wayland development to give weston any attention leading to the current situation, although I might be wrong.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by rabcor View Post
      Weston is a part of the Wayland project, as in officially speaking. It was always my understanding that they would have more or less the same developers. I imagine these developers have been too busy with wayland development to give weston any attention leading to the current situation, although I might be wrong.
      Yeah, the poor Wayland devs need a lot of time and hard work to remove essential features from X11 and stubbornly stick to it.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by bug77 View Post
        Kind of ironic considering this was supposed to be new hot, nimble thing to save us from the old, unmaintained Xorg.
        And yes, I know this just the reference implementation, because one reusable implementation is also passe and now everyone gets to implement the same thing over and over again. And still not have feature parity
        I suppose you aren't aware of the existence of wlroots?

        From the description of wlroots:

        "Pluggable, composable, unopinionated modules for building a Wayland compositor; or about 40,000 lines of code you were going to write anyway."
        A modular Wayland compositor library. Contribute to swaywm/wlroots development by creating an account on GitHub.

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        • #14
          Wow, the Wayland haters are out in force today
          I personally can't wait to get rid of X! Which I'll do once kwin + plasma will have agreed upon a protocol for the virtual desktop pager, and activities (though that's less important to me).

          That situation with Weston seems to be quite hard to solve, as it's hard to review patches if you aren't a contributor already :/

          Originally posted by Steffo View Post
          Everyone is implementing its own Wayland implementation... This is something what we have not seen in X and it's disturbing to me.
          Well, that's kind of the point, as Wayland is a protocol

          There is wlroots, though, as a library that provides common bits and pieces to implement compositors without too much work.
          Edid: ninja'd on wlroots, though that's typically only used in "small budget" compositors, that implement classic desktop-type interactions, AFAIK?

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          • #15
            Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
            Wow, the Wayland haters are out in force today
            I personally can't wait to get rid of X! Which I'll do once kwin + plasma will have agreed upon a protocol for the virtual desktop pager, and activities (though that's less important to me).
            even when that happens you will have inconsistent window decorations and other issues because, you know everyone does wayland differently

            the wayland hate is everything but baseless

            the only sane solution i see is for everyone to use mir for wayland, but mir gets even more hate than wayland itself, and this solution is sadly unlikely AF

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            • #16
              Originally posted by rabcor View Post

              While that is true, Weston is an important, maybe even vital part of wayland. It's supposed to be an example/reference compositor for others to use as a guideline to help them when they are developing their own, whether it be the first steps of development or somewhere along the way. In it's current state it seems to outright fail to do so.

              Weston is a part of the Wayland project, as in officially speaking. It was always my understanding that they would have more or less the same developers. I imagine these developers have been too busy with wayland development to give weston any attention leading to the current situation, although I might be wrong.
              If you talk about the same developers than I want to add that you should take X11 into account as well... and Wayland shares as well the same project organization. Often the discussions are black and white, like X11 and Wayland are completely separate. But in reality it is not, it is just about what people like or not (or maybe used to). I've made several times the experience, that Wayland improved the X11 world... and now people think that it was always like this, that X11 was always in it's current state...

              https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq....eading_toc_j_2

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              • #17
                Originally posted by davidbepo View Post

                even when that happens you will have inconsistent window decorations and other issues because, you know everyone does wayland differently

                the wayland hate is everything but baseless

                the only sane solution i see is for everyone to use mir for wayland, but mir gets even more hate than wayland itself, and this solution is sadly unlikely AF
                I think the reason for the Wayland hate is that the missing pieces are not addressed on a public road-map per project. As a Plasma Wayland user I miss as well a clear focus and statements, so far it is more like we have this Wayland thing and it somehow works ok but as it is probably easier many developers continue to work on nice to have features and skip Wayland so far IMHO.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by R41N3R View Post

                  I think the reason for the Wayland hate is that the missing pieces are not addressed on a public road-map per project. As a Plasma Wayland user I miss as well a clear focus and statements, so far it is more like we have this Wayland thing and it somehow works ok but as it is probably easier many developers continue to work on nice to have features and skip Wayland so far IMHO.
                  Something like https://phabricator.kde.org/project/view/99/ ?

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by rabcor View Post

                    While that is true, Weston is an important, maybe even vital part of wayland. It's supposed to be an example/reference compositor for others to use as a guideline to help them when they are developing their own, whether it be the first steps of development or somewhere along the way. In it's current state it seems to outright fail to do so.

                    Weston is a part of the Wayland project, as in officially speaking. It was always my understanding that they would have more or less the same developers. I imagine these developers have been too busy with wayland development to give weston any attention leading to the current situation, although I might be wrong.
                    The role of a reference implementation is to prove things in the specification actually work

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by rabcor View Post
                      So wayland and weston simply do not have enough developers, I guess the mystery of why I'm still using X11 is officially solved..
                      So? Arcan is nearing X11-compatibility, runs great and is stable and has one developer most of the time. So amount of developers says squat.

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