XWayland Gets Initial Support For EGLStreams To Support NVIDIA's Driver

[Khrundel]

You know repeating the same false premise is just as wrong the subsequent times right? Go ahead, use nVidia's driver, nobody is stopping you. You can't use wayland even if you wanted to, You can use an X desktop, but it's gonna be a real shitty experience, lag fest and tearing extravaganza. And lets consider what happens when you want to use a second monitor....

Do you know anything about all this shit? You can boot to gnome wayland session with nvidia blob kms enabled. You won't get working glx on xwayland, but everything else will work. I haven't seen any tearing. According to previous posts, it was fixed after 304 drivers.
But nain thing is this: Imagine, you are a kde user with a nvidia card. And now is something about 2020, so plasma on wayland in production ready state. And neither Matrin nor Nvidia stepped back. What will you, being sane person, will sacrifice? You won't drop kde. You won't replace videocard. You will drop wayland. That's why xwayland implements nvidia glx support, they can pose saying "we will never accept nvidia patches for weston", but they know who will loose more without accelerated xwayland".

The real fact of the matter is that AMD's OSS driver is more complete that nVidia's driver ever was. And r600 class hardware has been at least since something like 2009, and GCN hardware since at least 2012.

there is a famous RadeonFeature wiki on freedesktop site. You can browse its history and see that my former evergreen card got opengl 4.x support with opensource driver something around December 2015. When every sane person already throwed this card away. Also, you can google for gallium-nine, and you will find refusal to merge this code to main wine branch with words "just fix opengl performance and you will get same performance without gallium-nine".

[MartinN]

I'm not at all against making money one way or another. I think an OSS platform should be versatile enough to run any software, proprietary or any other.

That's in fact NVidia's entire problem. They HAVE made money, and have been successful but they have been extremely tight-assed and blind to the fact that millions of their users/customers are also FOSS folk who give a s**t about values that aren't necessarily aligned with NVidia's bottom line. Now they're attempting to do just that - give back and be generous, but they want to do it on THEIR terms... well, it doesn't work like that NVidia - you don't get to command and bend the FOSS community to your will. It is YOU who must bend to its will, and you that has to get off your high horse... You're blinded by your own success and insensitive to something that is much bigger than you, an idea that has been transforming the world for the last 30 years. If you're too stupid, too arrogant, too blind, too whatever to see this, then so be it - you will be castigated, ostracized and given the boot. Maybe that won't affect your bottom line right away, but rest assured, it will in the final analysis... For you're not the only ones, the first nor the last to do what you've done - make GPUs.

[MartinN]

You see sometimes we must make compromises.

Sure.. let's take on all the tasks NVidia doesnt want to invest time/money/resources in just so they can become compliant w/gbm or what not. They are lazy, unwilling and selfish to boot, to make some sacrifices despite having deep pockets. It's all just merely a reflection of the leadership's character, or rather, lack thereof. Guess what... Shuttleworth did the exact same thing with their Mir bullsh*t - thinking they can leverage their reputation they built atop FOSS/GNU/Linux to pull a fast one, to Apple-ize the community by their one off degenerate child, Mir.... Look how well that worked out for them several years later - Mir is resting in mir (mir = peace), and now they're contemplating turning on Wayland by default from 18.04/10 and henceforth... Other bigger assholes with pockets deeper and inflated egos larger than Jensen Huang's have tried to subvert, pervert, corrupt the spirit of FOSS... It always without fail backfires. Why? Because FOSS/GNU/GPL is an idea, and IMHO, and many others' as well, it's a GOOD idea - it compels people to give back in proportion to or more than what they've taken. It's "mandated" generosity, in some sense...

NVidia is like the student who does the minimum to get a passing grade in this course of FOSS, and moreover would also resort to cheating by stealing other people's work or expect others to do their work for them out of pity... except most folk in FOSS are exquisitely intelligent and see right through NVidia's bullcrap and will have none of it.... FOSS -is BIGGER- than NVidia and will outlast them and many others like them or even better entities than them.

NOW is the last train stop for NVidia to get on board or to slide into irrelevance as other more compliant players eat slowly into their pie. FOSS folk are a forgiving bunch but they are no fools. The ball is and has been in NVidia's court for some time now, and they need to make a move and set the mood straight with the community and all this crap will be forgotten and water under the bridge instead of having a Mir/Shuttleworth re-run. They will fail if they do not comply except it will take longer since NVidia actually has more money than Canonical.. but money's a funny thing - it comes slowly and big but it goes even quicker. Piss people off, spread ill will, and money tends to get sucked away much quicker than you can make it.

What NVidia doesn't have and can't purchase is good will. F**k that up, and you may never climb out of that hole. In contrast to NVidia, AMD's new CEO, bless her heart, Mrs Lisa Su, is doing right by the FOSS community, and to a very large extent so has Intel, despite their recent CPU snafus ... NVidia is not foregone just yet, but their arrogance/temporary success is currently blinding them. There's really only one good way to solve this problem quickly - and that is to fire Huang and replace him with a leader who will reciprocate to the FOSS community in addition to making sure the company stays afloat and successful. That in and of itself may be difficult depending on how strong his chokehold is on NVidia's shares... but it's not impossible. A mistake here and there, coupled with ill will.... and NVidia's gonna be in for a rude awakening if they don't shape up.

Yes, we must make compromises "PackRat" .... the FOSS community, as far as I'm concerned, has bent over backwards for NVidia. Now they can take what they've been dealt and do something about their rep, or they can literally, in the immortal words of Torvalds - "F**K OFF".

Now go away.

[duby229]

duby229 :"You do know this is a forum for Open source advocates right?"

Then why is there and ad for warthunder and other "evil propritary software"? Maybe I should turn on my opensource add block plugin for firefox so the evil proprietary software nightmares end...

You see sometimes we must make compromises.

I'm not at all against making money one way or another. I think an OSS platform should be versatile enough to run any software, proprietary or any other.

[PackRat]

You can use what you want. Though, If you love, support and embrace proprietary software in the land of GNU/Linux, you're going to find yourself bashing heads with the GNU/Linux, dominant culture of people who love, support and embrace Open Source and see proprietary software as an inferior approach.

You'll have no problems in Windows and Mac OS X lands voicing your support for proprietary software. The cultures there totally accept it. It's common place for people in those cultures to see proprietary software as a necessity.

So for some people, the answer may well be "don't use [GNU/]Linux". If you like Chinese food, maybe don't go to an Italian restaurant to ask for it. If you like proprietary software, maybe don't go to GNU/Linux to find it: our menu is Open Source and most of us are allergic to proprietary code.

Debian Linux kernels named after Toy story characters made by Pixar were made with proprietary software on sgi workstations. Irix is gone and has been replaced with GNU/Linux and
Mesa 1.0 3D graphics library has replaced: " SGI had asked me not to use the terms "Open" or "GL" " https://mesa3d.org/intro.html . Opensource won, but the proprietary 3d software
now just runs on GNU/Linux. Even Blender relies on Cuda more then Opencl. Opencl did not even work for the longest time and Amd had to split the kernel for it to work: https://developer.blender.org/T44197 . I have been very very patient with "Opensource" solutions. Then my fglrx driver was taken away along with the opencl that came with that driver.I have another machine with nvidia proprietary driver and cuda/opencl and you cybertraveler and others want to pull the rug from under my feet once again?

duby229 :"You do know this is a forum for Open source advocates right?"

Then why is there and ad for warthunder and other "evil propritary software"? Maybe I should turn on my opensource add block plugin for firefox so the evil proprietary software nightmares end...

You see sometimes we must make compromises.

[duby229]

Have fun loosing an entire industry while Drew writes code in his mama's basement. "Not usable" lol Like you will ever see i3 in the nasdaq! http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/...20180108-01158
nvidia https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/nvda vs Amd https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/amd lmfao.

That's troll bait at it's best. You do know this is a forum for Open source advocates right? You can take all that BS and shove it where the sun don't shine. The open source community already established an API that did what they needed and it was adopted across the entire community universally.

You go right ahead and laugh, but as nVidia loses its position on linux. I'll be laughing too.

[shmerl]

You can justify hatred against anyone using similar phrases.

I don't see any need to justify Nvidia's behavior. They simply refuse to do it right? Let them get lost. Their usage is already gradually dropping.

[PackRat]

Buh-bye then. Farewell and good riddance. Nvidia donated something that is not useable, not anywhere. And that's not even the half of it, a more complete example alreay existed that's already being used by -literally- everyone else. It was -nVidia- who was late to this game and then brought gear for the wrong type of game.

Have fun loosing an entire industry while Drew writes code in his mama's basement. "Not usable" lol Like you will ever see i3 in the nasdaq! http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/...20180108-01158
nvidia https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/nvda vs Amd https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/amd lmfao.

[cybertraveler]

Nobody warned that OpenGL must be implemented using MESA library.

Sounds like another strawman. I don't think there is any significant protest against OpenGL implementations not created within Mesa. I haven't noticed any complaints about this myself. This is not what the complaints are about.

If Nvidia wanted to implement an Open Source, OpenGL lib outside of Mesa, I can't see a problem with that.

In fact, I really like the Nvidia GL Vendor-Neutral Dispatch library: https://github.com/NVIDIA/libglvnd It's Open Source and looks like a graceful solution to allow competing OpenGL implementations to gracefully co-exist on 1 system.


I will start purchasing, supporting and promoting Nvidia hardware when they promptly release legally usable, signed firmware for their hardware that needs it, provide documentation to allow third parties to implement drivers for all their consumer desktop hardware and when they shift their focus from their proprietary driver to an Open Source driver that integrates well with the GNU/Linux ecosystem. Until that time comes, I guess you will strawman and I will support AMD & Intel

[duby229]

You can justify hatred against anyone using similar phrases.
Assuming by "work properly" you don't mean some kind of bugs, Nvidia worked properly from the beginning. For a decades, linux GPU was expected to implement OpengGL shared object and X11 DDX driver. Nvidia had all of these. Nobody warned that OpenGL must be implemented using MESA library.

That's not true. Nvidia's DDX driver is arguably the worst one of them all now that fglrx is out of the way. What, you can't feel how laggy it is? You can't see the tearing? Have you never plugged in a second monitor or a TV? It has decades old multimonitor bugs that still have never even been acknowledged.