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Igalia's Battle Getting Chromium Running Nicely On Wayland

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  • Igalia's Battle Getting Chromium Running Nicely On Wayland

    Phoronix: Igalia's Battle Getting Chromium Running Nicely On Wayland

    Igalia has been one of the companies working on improving Chromium's support for Wayland and they shared their story about it at this weekend's FOSDEM 2018 event in Brussels...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...-Wayland-Story

  • #2
    The phase of transition of programs towards wayland has booted and it's a good initiative.

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    • #3
      Until anything related to Wayland gets stable, it's not a good initiative for software to go for it.

      Some software should even get feature-freeze then get stabilized for X before that.
      Otherwise, there'll be no fallback when shit will hit the fan.
      Last edited by UpsetingFact; 02-04-2018, 10:50 AM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by UpsetingFact View Post
        Until anything related to Wayland gets stable, it's not a good initiative for software to go for it.
        Meaning what? Wayland itself is plenty stable - its the desktop environment implementations that leave much to be desired.

        Some software should even get feature-freeze then get stabilized for X before that.

        Otherwise, there'll be no fallback when shit will hit the fan.
        X compatibility isn't being replaced... So you can relax - there will be a fallback.

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        • #5
          That's why I said "anything related to Wayland". We can't be sure Wayland is stable until the first implementation is correctly done.
          As soon as it gets stable, I'll jump in. But never ever before that.
          Until then, I'll still by far prefer using Compton or any compositing window manager to fix tearing; which to be honest, is not that of a big issue compared to what most people are making it looks like.

          About the fallbacks, I'm talking about the applications. They should stabilize themselves first before thinking about going into Wayland.
          And I'm not talking about 100% stable, but a decent 95%.
          Last edited by UpsetingFact; 02-04-2018, 10:56 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by UpsetingFact View Post
            That's why I said "anything related to Wayland". We can't be sure Wayland is stable until the first implementation is correctly done.
            As soon as it gets stable, I'll jump in. But never ever before that.
            Until then, I'll still by far prefer using Compton or any compositing window manager to fix tearing; which to be honest, is not that of a big issue compared to what most people are making it looks like.
            How unstable do you think Wayland is? I've been using KDE + Wayland (a configuration not known for its stability) on a daily basis for over a year and so far I've only encountered 2 stability problems, both of which are easily avoidable. There are minor things here and there that don't work the way they used to, but nothing important; they aren't issues that get in my way, and aren't necessarily related to stability. If you're using GNOME and only 1 monitor, I'm sure plenty of people would consider that 95% stable (ignoring non-Wayland stability issues).

            About the fallbacks, I'm talking about the applications. They should stabilize themselves first before thinking about going into Wayland.
            And I'm not talking about 100% stable, but a decent 95%.
            I know what you're talking about - I was referring to the same thing. Chromium is stable on X, and devs working on Chromium+Wayland shouldn't affect that. But also, what exactly do you think Chromium needs fixing in that is specific to X? I'm using Chromium right now (on my KDE+Wayland setup) and it's never crashed, never had rendering issues, and runs very smooth. I use Chromium at work on an XFCE setup and I can say the same thing there.

            In general, I don't understand your paranoid over level of stability. If you're using Nvidia or outdated hardware, perhaps you should rethink your priorities.
            Last edited by schmidtbag; 02-04-2018, 11:22 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by UpsetingFact View Post
              That's why I said "anything related to Wayland". We can't be sure Wayland is stable until the first implementation is correctly done.
              As soon as it gets stable, I'll jump in. But never ever before that.
              The reference stable implementation is called Weston and has been available since the inception of Wayland. The only major change to the weston compositor the last couple of years has been to make it modular (make it into a lib) which has nothing to do with wayland itself, so by your definition it has been stable for two years now.

              There's still no standards/extensions/whatever for screenrecording, screenshots, windowmanager metadata such as seeing which window is currently focused, color tinting etc.. That each wayland needs to re-implement this currently is in my opinion the dealbreaker, not stability which works fine and has done so for a while.

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              • #8
                Just to make sure about the "Stable" word: Stable means bug-free (to a certain extent; e.g 95%).
                I'll always mean that unless specified, as per the consensus that normal people means.
                Not the fake "stable" as "not moving" that should be called "staged" instead.

                So, Wayland and Weston is of course staged for a while now, but I'm waiting for any actual implementations outside Gnome properly made.

                Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                How unstable do you think Wayland is? I've been using KDE + Wayland (a configuration not known for its stability) on a daily basis for over a year and so far I've only encountered 2 stability problems, both of which are easily avoidable. There are minor things here and there that don't work the way they used to, but nothing important; they aren't issues that get in my way, and aren't necessarily related to stability. If you're using GNOME and only 1 monitor, I'm sure plenty of people would consider that 95% stable (ignoring non-Wayland stability issues).


                I know what you're talking about - I was referring to the same thing. Chromium is stable on X, and devs working on Chromium+Wayland shouldn't affect that. But also, what exactly do you think Chromium needs fixing in that is specific to X? I'm using Chromium right now (on my KDE+Wayland setup) and it's never crashed, never had rendering issues, and runs very smooth. I use Chromium at work on an XFCE setup and I can say the same thing there.

                In general, I don't understand your paranoid over level of stability. If you're using Nvidia or outdated hardware, perhaps you should rethink your priorities.


                Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for others. (let's call this point S)
                The fact that Ubuntu 18.04 won't default to Wayland says a lot, considering that they're the kinds to release something that isn't even at least 95% stable.

                Stabilizing software without considering Wayland nowadays reduces fixes complexity, thus less possible errors. That also ensures fixes will be there on a stable fixed release for X instead of being spanned everywhere, which would force users to deal with new bugs.

                Point S again, it's not paranoia over level of stability. If too much people gets problems and a big company not defaulting to Wayland, then problem there is.

                And I'm using Intel drivers.
                Last edited by UpsetingFact; 02-04-2018, 11:53 AM.

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                • #9
                  Wayland works perfectly. Weston works perfectly. It’s all the desktops and remote apps that are garbage and they’ll just have to be completely rewritten, in Rust.

                  I got my local Best Buy to price match MicroCenter so I’m typing this on my Wayland-free and systemd-free iPad Pro 10.5” though. Getting Chromium working is “not my problem!” 😘

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UpsetingFact View Post
                    Just to make sure about the "Stable" word: Stable means bug-free (to a certain extent; e.g 95%).
                    I'll always mean that unless specified, as per the consensus that normal people means.
                    Not the fake "stable" as "not moving" that should be called "staged" instead.
                    So... why are you using Linux? Because pretty much nothing noteworthy in Linux could be categorized as 95% stable. Just about everything worth concerning over (that isn't hardware related) has hundreds of entries in their todo lists. Pretty much no software nowadays could be defined as "not moving". Hell, I even see commands like "grep" and "sed" get updated every once in a while.
                    So, Wayland and Weston is of course staged for a while now, but I'm waiting for any actual implementations outside Gnome properly made.
                    That's fine. But what does that have anything to do with Chromium devs working on added stability? Again - it doesn't affect X users.

                    Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it'll work for others. (let's call this point S)
                    The fact that Ubuntu 18.04 won't default to Wayland says a lot, considering that they're the kinds to release something that isn't even at least 95% stable.
                    I'm not suggesting it should be enabled by default, I'm just saying it isn't as broken and unusable as you make it out to be. Wayland+GNOME currently is not flawless in all setups, which is why Ubuntu doesn't use it. GNOME+X isn't flawless, either, but it is more functional.

                    Stabilizing software without considering Wayland nowadays reduces fixes complexity, thus less possible errors. That also ensures fixes will be there on a stable fixed release for X instead of being spanned everywhere, which would force users to deal with new bugs.
                    Again - what X related issues are you talking about? You're so obsessed over this 5% that you're totally blinded by what's actually a problem, which I assure you, is not going to be hampered by this attention to Wayland. So get over it. Besides, how exactly do you expect Wayland to get anywhere if people keep clinging onto X? How is stability ever going to be achieved efficiently if 2 protocols have to be perpetually managed?

                    Point S again, it's not paranoia over level of stability. If too much people gets problems and a big company not defaulting to Wayland, then problem there is.
                    And yet you still don't mention what these other problems are. You can't rightfully complain about something if you don't have a specific better alternative.
                    But for argument's stake, let's say that you want the Chromium devs to prioritize other bugs that aren't Wayland or X related: Where do you draw the line? What if they're trying to fix something PulseAudio related. Not all Chromium users use PA, so should that get ignored? What about WebGL? What about obscure Javascript functions? What about extension related bugs? The list goes on indefinitely. Very rarely is there a bug that affects all users that isn't the developers' top priority. So the fact you're whining about Wayland getting attention when there are dozens of other things that don't affect all users is irrelevant.
                    Last edited by schmidtbag; 02-04-2018, 12:28 PM.

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