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Purism Might Develop An X11-Free Wayland Compositor Aligned With GNOME

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  • Purism Might Develop An X11-Free Wayland Compositor Aligned With GNOME

    Phoronix: Purism Might Develop An X11-Free Wayland Compositor Aligned With GNOME

    Yesterday we heard of Purism's plans to support desktop diversity but by default for their Librem 5 smartphone they will likely be using GNOME in order to maintain a unified experience across their devices. The latest now is they might develop a new Wayland compositor in line with GNOME...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...ybe-Compositor

  • GraysonPeddie
    replied
    Originally posted by skierpage View Post
    blackiwid, UpsetingFact you both look foolish because you wildly exaggerate the flaws of the desktop toolkit you don't like. Plasma mobile is undoubtedly further along than Gnome on phones and Gnome is in the midst of a transition to GTK4 (and likely a new Gnome shell design), but Purism values having a common environment and toolkit between their laptops and phones more. That's a reasonable basis to make a decision, even if you disagree with it. FWIW Canonical struggled with the same issue and chose Qt QML apps for their phone and an in-house compositor.
    Please pardon me for resurrecting a +1-week-old thread, but nothing is said better than your statement. If you are happy with KDE, use it. If you are happy with GNOME, use it. GNOME and KDE all have flaws and we need to settle our differences and be happy that you chose either GNOME or KDE instead of having an argument and end up fighting each other.

    In my opinion, I don't agree with KWin's server-side decoration as I prefer GNOME Mutter's client-side decoration, because in KDE, I would like the title bar to match with the main theme for any applications and I prefer GNOME's way of theming, since the title/header bar can match well with the main app depending on the theme.

    With that said, I do not want to see the thread run its course as it has since more than a week ago, so please take the GNOME vs. KDE fight elsewhere and stay on-topic.

    I am keeping my eye on Purism Librem 5 and will look forward to see how the development of the smartphone is coming. I downgraded my Android smartphone from 8.0 to 7.1.2 because of the double-notification sound from Twitter (it's not just Twitter and me having the problem) and I don't like adopting to the Oreo's workflow with quick settings in the notification try as I do not like it all-white, so Nougat has a much better look with quick settings. Alas, I did sidetrack myself, but from that point on with not wanting Android 8.0 and later version of Android, I am looking forward towards Purism.

    I don't play games in my smartphone due to my visual impairment, so even though jumping from Android to GNOME or Plasma Mobile (I'm biased towards GNOME since I'm used to the interface, so let's not get into dispute) may seem easy, there may be compromises along the way, such as lack of fingerprint authentication with Enpass Password Manager and Bank of America. Plus, I used Google Mail, Hangouts (for family members using a gmail.com account with text messaging/video calling), Google Drive, and Google Maps, so I like having to use G-Suite in my smartphone. If I could get my family to switch to Signal, that would be great, but I'd like to avoid switching whenever possible. I will be porting my current phone number out of Project Fi to T-Mobile once my monthly payments for my Nexus 6P is done.

    Leave a comment:


  • skierpage
    replied
    blackiwid, UpsetingFact you both look foolish because you wildly exaggerate the flaws of the desktop toolkit you don't like. Plasma mobile is undoubtedly further along than Gnome on phones and Gnome is in the midst of a transition to GTK4 (and likely a new Gnome shell design), but Purism values having a common environment and toolkit between their laptops and phones more. That's a reasonable basis to make a decision, even if you disagree with it. FWIW Canonical struggled with the same issue and chose Qt QML apps for their phone and an in-house compositor.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackiwid
    replied
    1. The point is to give developer a easy way to start with gnome development, to get new ideas for the default desktop, a experiment field, to give some distros a way to add their stuff, not everybody compiles always the newest alpha from gnome or kde on their desktop but uses what is installed on their distro.

    "Let me tell you why you say so: You're a deep insecure little teen that only cares about a MacOS-like looks even if it's functionnaly shit. That's why.'"

    ohh you are soooo wrong about that, I am in my late 30s so again you are wrong.

    2. the car point you don't even argue you try to make some points without any reall points.it's not even related at all to the software situation, or what does it mean that vw owns porsche for gnome and kde? You know the idea behind comparsions? To find similarities from one field to another?

    3. no its not enough, my main point is that, linux users is a small group of people, so you want something that is usable from the stupidest, we are talking about desktops not tiling wms, so real geeks use no desktop at all that includes me, we use tiling wms or in my case exwm emacs as window manager basically. So we will not be 100% happy with the desktop choice on such a device anyway. Except maybe for a touch device a really stupid desktop makes more sense than i3 or something like that.

    4. Now you are completly ridicoulous "gnome does not work" because 1 retarded plugin you wanted to use was unstable gnome does not work. But if 90% of all base kde versions are unstable (you admit it yourself at 12. (4.8 and 5.8 are PRETTY stable) so all other versions were not stable at all and even this 2 versions are not just rock stable, but only "pretty stable".

    So having stable software is no requirement for you to call something working? You are ridicoulous. That's exactly the problem even kde fanboys like you admit over and over again that kde is not rock stable, not even your strange selected versions that you don't get if you use a random distro, because they inclue the latest "stable" version whatever that means in the kde world. basicly the latest alpha they don't even include your 2 selected betas that are still not stable. While gnome might had small problems in the beginning like start time, it was from beginning to now every 6 months a more or less rock stable version on several distros.

    Well maybe I am biased here because I don't use nvidia blobs or other proprietary software so you might have had problems with that, but we talk about librem that wants to use free software so it should not be a problem, they should include a free software graphics driver.

    Don't change the subject Mate and XFCE are not reasonable because their wayland support is bad or not existent, and yes they are usable and stable, not my choice nr.1 but I would not oppose to them so hard than this alpha plasma software.

    Software is made for you to be used, not you being used by your insecurities about looks.
    It's not only about looks, but if you want to marketing something it matters, why do you think ubuntu was so successful? Why do you think they weren't successful with kde? So there is a point to make that mate is better, because that was basically what made them strong, and it has the gnome look. And I get why some people that are very stubbern and want to have a basically windows 95 usability the next 50 years, so why is Mint after maybe ubuntu the most successful desktops even people that hated unity and gnome, most of them run to another gtk based desktop that was a gnome 2 clone or fork.

    I would prefer even unseen Elementary desktop over kde for fucks sake. I care about functionality, but normale fuctionality is primary in the application not the start menu.

    Are you on your first teeny years ?
    Oh my...

    5. Software development is no democracy, where does the kde people listen to their users to make sane defaults and stable releases instead of one alpha version after another with the seldom beta releases in between?

    I told you that's very successful projects gets automatically more hate, because they have more users, that's true for ubuntu (even it hurts to admit that one), it's true for systemd and its true for gnome.
    If people used kde and it crashed on them in the first 30 minutes they don't start a flamewar on reddit, they just go back to their previous thing, and don't use it for the next 1 year then next 5 years after repeatence. So you never hear from the 99% that doesn't like kde cause they don't use it.

    6. it does not matter, therefor I skipped that point, well you apparently advocate to not only make plasma default but get rid of gnome all together (2 desktops bring it down), even more absurd. even if you believe that technically that would be a good idea, librem would earn such a big shitstorm for that because they advertised their kickstarter with gnome default, it would be basically a fraud.

    7. So it's functionality first.
    But how easy to use a software is or it's intuitivity is a feature right, you and me are maybe not prioritize that so much, but still its the major thing what people care about.

    8. don't understand what your argument is here.

    9.1. forcing? you know you can activate desktop icons with the tweak tool right? it's more a suggestion, to rethink your old windows 95 oppinions about how a workflow should be like.

    9.2. "That's about freedom of choice, remember ?"
    Gnome-tweak-tool there you have your choice.

    10. Don't generalize your very own specific case, because it's irrelevant.
    No it's not irrelevant, you can't have a expert desktop as default because most linux users are lazy as fuck. you always go with a stable and easy choice without 1000 options in every single dialog, kde / plasma doesn't deliver on that front.

    11. If people want the desktop choice, let it be instead ofr forcing something else.
    thats coming from you that says 2 desktops is to much so basically advocating to not support gnome at all, which gives users more choice right.

    12. What if I told you that KDE 4.8 were pretty much stable and that same goes for KDE 5.8, and that Gnome wasn't fucking stable until 3.22 ?
    Again you are making my point only 2 versions in the last what 10 years of plasma were "pretty much" stable... that's a horrible state. Vanilla gnome (and you are talking about vanilla kde, so I do the same for gnome), were rock solid stable in 23 releases every 6 month 1 version.
    Last edited by blackiwid; 02-05-2018, 05:04 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • UpsetingFact
    replied
    1.
    Fallacies and fallacies...

    What if I told you, that not needing a shit tons of extensions because something is good enough out of the box makes it 10 times better ?
    And, what's the point of extensions, if you're unable to keep a staging standard ?
    Now tell me again why Gnome is 10 times better.

    Let me tell you why you say so: You're a deep insecure little teen that only cares about a MacOS-like looks even if it's functionnaly shit. That's why.

    2.
    Is that all you can do ?
    Come on, you can't take my very own sentence and change the brands.
    I'm the one making fun of you when you're out of the road with your Porsche.

    Also, you do know that VW owns Porsche right ?
    Please try again, you amuse me.

    3.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comme...r_the_wayland/
    That should be enough.

    Concerning FreeBSD: Are you trying to skip the main subject ?

    4.
    Look at XFCE: It works, look at Mate: It works, look at Gnome: It doesn't work, look at KDE: It works.
    Also, a Desktop PC is not a tablet. Get over it.

    Software is made for you to be used, not you being used by your insecurities about looks.
    That's what I said earlier, all you care about is looks, not functionality.
    So maybe, just maybe you're the problem.

    Are you on your first teeny years ?

    5.
    Please tell me when Gnome 3 developers listened to the people after the massive amount of rants they got ? Thanks.

    6.

    You forgot point 6.
    7.
    And that's the problem with you.

    A DE's look is not top priority since it's software. So it's functionality first.

    8.
    Look over point 5 again.

    Now tell me about reaching most users and freedom of choice with Gnome 3 ? Thanks.

    9.1.
    It's about freedom of choice, you don't force people to follow your "looks" ideas by removing dektop icons.
    You're a vocal minority.

    9.2.
    You do know that XFCE's Whisker menu and KDE's Kick menu does the same thing right ?

    But what if I told you, that I still got the choice to place my most important files right in front of me so I don't have to go through a file explorer to find it ?
    That's about freedom of choice, remember ?

    9.3.
    What were you trying to say ?

    10.
    Just because your relatives uses it, doesn't mean everyone thinks the same.

    Don't generalize your very own specific case, because it's irrelevant.

    11.
    You saying that KDE is not fitting most people's need is your very own point of view.

    If people want the desktop choice, let it be instead ofr forcing something else.

    12.
    What if I told you that KDE 4.8 were pretty much stable and that same goes for KDE 5.8, and that Gnome wasn't fucking stable until 3.22 ?

    And guess what ? I'm always testing those two from time to time.\
    So yeah, you're biased.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackiwid
    replied
    1. they give you a great vanilla desktop that is 10 times better than kde, for most users (much more gnome users than kde users)

    then on top of that they give you the opportunity to use extensions, which kde doesn't but somehow kde gives you not the option to use extensions is more user friendly?

    So in your mind also firefox and chrome are bad browsers because they have extension support and from time to time they break it. Ok 99% of browser users disagree with you.


    2. I enjoy that my porsche breaks less often cause of high quality components its made of, and drive with it 20 years after your car is destroyed already. If you have to take that comparsion so far.


    3. More users say kde sucks people vote with their feat much much more gnome users vs kde users are therefor my oppinion. of course if you have more users you have more haters between them that are more loud, that doesn't mean that your product sucks.

    Freebsd has much much more security problems than linux but because nobody uses it, it gets nearly no press.

    4. That's Gnome, you always need to get a shit ton of extension to make it exactly does what the user wants.

    Thats your oppinion, if you are stubbern and don't want to change your desktop pattern from windows 95 or xp maybe you are the problem. But even you don't need windows 95 workflow on a smartphone or do you?

    5. Also: Forcing touch features on desktop PCs is what's killing convergence.

    "Forcing" features is the wrong word here, they have a pretty good usable desktop with mouse and more important keyboard, so touch is just another option, giving more options doesn't mean forcing.

    If at all they "forced" you away from mouse to keyboard, to some extend' but keyboards for desktop is the best input device, much more ergonomical than mouses for 95% of actions not 100% but 95% some things a mouse is better. But clicking on a start menu is not one of them.

    But even therefor just use ubuntu with their gnome-shell version and you have your start menu. Or use debian and install the deb files of the menu extensions nothing will break. Just if you install the extension over the internet site you get problems.

    But again at worst they not force but may push you to use more the keyboard not the touchscreen, there is nothing that makes it harder to use the mouse or keyboard in favor of the touchscreen.

    7. "Remeber the flat earthers 1000 years ago ? Yeah, right."

    We are talking about subjective desktop preferences not physical facts aren't we?

    8. Besides, Gnome are doing everything to look like MacOS, don't even dare deny it.

    It doesn't matter what I want, free software is about choice, but a default desktop is about reaching most users, you do that with gnome and not kde. Thats all.

    I am not even using gnome myself for many years, but gnome 3 was a nice step to enlighten me to overthink that bad desktop functionality I was used to since Windows 95.

    1. No desktop Symbols important, zen like I don't have to minimize stuff down to reach the files/items on the desktop.
    2. starting programs with the keyboard with a search engine, much more ergonomic than moving my mouse 25x forth and back and click mini areas wehre the starter is.
    3. having apps startet more or less maxed out

    my brother uses it since 3-5 years now I believe, my father also more like 5 years, I hear no complain about it. My father is a noob, still he can deal with no desktop symbols and no start menu.

    But yes gnome might not be perfect for everybody and every needs, but that is not the messure point, that is ever less true for kde/plasma so that's the problem. If they could release a really productino ready version for once that would be a good start and maybe every 6 months or every 12 months.

    So you complain that gnome breaks extensions (if you have to have always the newest version), but kde can't release a rock stable version of their normal version for once.

    Leave a comment:


  • UpsetingFact
    replied
    1. Should I remind you that they're all forcing things that no one wants ? (e.g. extensions breakings)

    Also, just Google "Gnome developers" and let autocompletion do its work.

    2. Then, the Porsche broke and you're out of the road, while I'll make fun of you in my VW

    3. I bet you always make that claim: "Blah Blah Blah you don't understand" because you have nothing else to say.

    If something sucks, and that a lot of people say it, think again instead of denying over and over again.

    4. That's Gnome, you always need to get a shit ton of extension to make it exactly does what the user wants.

    Also, remember the extension breakings ? Well, that's Gnome too.

    5. What if I told you, that Canonical were advocating their "Unity" shit ?

    Also: Forcing touch features on desktop PCs is what's killing convergence. Think about why Windows is going back to the start menu, that Gnome 3 got flames while Gnome 2/Mate is still praised even a decade later, and that apple are still distinctively not made any significant move towards convergence ?

    6. One good choice will work, adding a bad choice will both bring them down.

    Make something good first, then consider something else when you have a fallback option.

    7. "X is the most used" is the biggest fallacy onecould eve bring.

    Remeber the flat earthers 1000 years ago ? Yeah, right.

    8. Gnome is ugly as hell.

    See how meaningless and arrogant you guys are ? Thanks.

    Besides, Gnome are doing everything to look like MacOS, don't even dare deny it.
    So if you want apple, go for it and join the overhyped teens there while letting serious business like it alays has been.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackiwid
    replied
    Originally posted by KRiloshart View Post
    Why bother with unfriendly GNOME Devs, why doesnt purism support KDE as much as gnome. Especially considering that KDE has friendlier Dev s than gnome and better infrastructure like plasma mobile, kirigami, kwin working without x, etc. Shouldn't choosing KDE be cheaper and better solution.
    1. that's a claim without any proof (gnome more unfriendly than kde)
    I hope you can bring some quantitative or qualitative proof of that, asking the same questions in the same tone on both mailing lists as example.

    2. even if it would be true, unfriendly devs, you don't settle usually with the worse solution if both cost the same money (0 cent in this case) If I get a porsche or a vw golf both at the same price I take the porsche without thinking a second even if the support from porsche would be worse.

    3. I bet you make that claim either by repeating some urban myths from others, or you gone to their mailing list and said "your desktop really sucks why do you not do everything like kde does it" and then wondered that the answers weren't that welcoming and friendly

    4. kde yet have not delivered on a totally stable easy to use desktop without 5 hours customization required.

    5. kde does their plasma mobile since 10 years and they got zero traction in the real market so far, even canonical ignored them. Gnome is not far behind even they only considered some support for windows touch notebooks. If they take some effort on that field, they are light years ahead in 1 or 2 years.

    6. both are supported, so whats the problem? fanboyism not satisfied? the point of that device despite some hardware anti-nsa switches is software freedom so people themself can choose heck you might even switch to another distribution.

    7. there are surly 5-10x more gnome users than kde users, with the gnome switch of ubuntu its 10x for sure. So people don't having all gnome on their desktops and plasma on their phones makes a lot of sense.

    8. kde is ugly as hell.
    Last edited by blackiwid; 02-04-2018, 03:48 AM.

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  • UpsetingFact
    replied
    Originally posted by monraaf View Post

    Must be hard to post while sucking yourself off.
    Same goes for anyone saying "blah blah blah you don't understand" though.

    And such people are mostly coming from the most controversial softwares... "Strange" you say ?

    Originally posted by KRiloshart View Post
    Why bother with unfriendly GNOME Devs, why doesnt purism support KDE as much as gnome. Especially considering that KDE has friendlier Dev s than gnome and better infrastructure like plasma mobile, kirigami, kwin working without x, etc. Shouldn't choosing KDE be cheaper and better solution.
    That's the weirdest part of Gnome coming so suddenly, either there was some cash involved or either they're make a very bad ideological decision this time.
    Last edited by UpsetingFact; 02-04-2018, 07:04 AM.

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  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by InsideJob View Post
    Brilliant idea! While all you crowdfunding peeps wait for your phones and tablets I'm gonna drive two hours to Micro Center tomorrow to buy a shiny new iPad Pro 10.5 with six core A10X CPU and 120 Hz screen for $499 (list $650) though.

    Best thing about iOS is it doesn't use Wayland or systemd. Heck, that's what I like most about Android too. LOL
    Damn, so US has decided to use their agents to promote Apple now?

    Sounds like a great way to get some more budget to run.

    Leave a comment:

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