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Apple Proposing A New, Lower-Level Graphics API For The Web

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  • #61
    Someone registered on github to complain about phoronix readers posting on the issue:
    I realize that businesses have priorities and needs; but in my opinion the draft charter guards Apple Inc.'s business priorities above the excellence of the standard. Specifically this passage: A t...

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    • #62
      A lot of Phoronix readers are developers, so it should be no surprise that Github users are similar.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by nemequ View Post

        I know LLVM was a University of Illinois project, and WebKit is a fork of KHTML, but who is to blame for OpenCL? Wikipedia says Apple started OpenCL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCL#History), though that's hardly irrefutable evidence…
        Apple was responsible for OpenCL. They also adopted LLVM/Clang without that adoption the project would have died.

        Frankly Apple has been involved in a lot of initiatives that have done good for the open source world. As such i really don't understand the negativity with them in the open source work. It just seems like many want to thumb their noses at Apple due to their success, not realizing that Apple has played a significant role in the success of the open source world.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by theriddick View Post
          Its like Apple deliberately hamstrings themselves in order to hamstring Linux, because if they supported Vulkan then we would likely see games/software that appear on Apple iOS also appear on Linux almost at same time... Can't have that.
          That is nonsnse! For one only an idiot would buy Apple hardware for gaming. For the most part Mac hardware and drivers where never up to the task. Second even before Metal gaming on the Mac was a complete after thought for most game developers, metal has done little to change that. The idea that games would move from the Mac to Linux is just bull crap, not because of Apple but rather because Mac OS isn't a targeted platform by game developers.

          It is one thing to hate on Apple but to do so with irrational arguments just makes you look silly. Games are developed for Windows and consoles first anything Linux or Mac OS gets is an afterthought. That is realitity.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post

            They invented Clang, have been the main driver of LLVM/Clang/LLDB, etc, created OpenCL and a lot of of stuff that exist. Without Apple CUPS isn't a fraction of what it is today. They do own it as well.
            I don't like the phrase "They do own it" as these are very much open source projects. I suspect most of the ignorance in this thread comes from the GPL crowd who refuse to acknowledge Apples contribution to open source.

            People need to realize that Apples support of CLang is directly responsible for the rapid increase in code quality that many C & C++ projects have obtained. In a nut shell CLang all on its own has had a huge impact on Linux. Frankly CLang had a big impact on Microsoft too, driving them back to standards.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by sirblackheart View Post
              Someone registered on github to complain about phoronix readers posting on the issue:
              https://github.com/gpuweb/admin/issu...ment-278606197
              Considering the non sense seen in this thread the complaint is justified.

              Frankly im not involved in 3D so what a web browser supports means little to me. What is an obvious problem here is people complaining due to where the idea came from which is asinine. The idea needs to stand or not on its own merits. Frankly the championing of Vulkan has not come with any sound technical arguements. If people want to promote Vulkan than do so with good sound reasons. Frankly Vulkans open status isn't a good enough reason.

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              • #67
                I'm not going to speculate about Apple's motivations, but they are certainly going to regret ignoring Vulkan. It's not like Vulkan is inferior to Metal, so championing Metal(for native) and the new gpuweb is a "stupid" move, but Apple have the right to act this way.

                But they are eventually just going to hurt themselves. OpenGL has mostly been utilized for Android and iOS, and the mobile gaming market is going to continue the growth a lot in the coming years. The majority of mobile devices are Android devices, and the future growth will mostly be in emerging markets. With no real support for Vulkan iOS is eventually going to loose even more market shares, as Vulkan gradually will be more utilized.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by wizard69 View Post

                  Apple was responsible for OpenCL. They also adopted LLVM/Clang without that adoption the project would have died.

                  Frankly Apple has been involved in a lot of initiatives that have done good for the open source world. As such i really don't understand the negativity with them in the open source work. It just seems like many want to thumb their noses at Apple due to their success, not realizing that Apple has played a significant role in the success of the open source world.
                  While Apple have been involved in some open source projects, I don't think they played a significant role in open source's success. They only ever seemed to go for open source if it could save them some money (not having to create their own html rendering engine, not having to create their own printing framework and be able to reuse existing printer drivers). And they always seemed to prefer BSD over GPL, if possible, as this allowed them to _not_ participate. That's why people don't really trust Apple.
                  Last edited by timtas; 09 February 2017, 03:51 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by wizard69 View Post

                    That is nonsnse! For one only an idiot would buy Apple hardware for gaming.

                    You say that, yet Apple desktops have a larger steam gaming percentage then Linux users (unfortunately). So yeah... and people like you still haven't a valid argument for apple not also supporting Vulkan API which would work in their favor as more products would come to their platform...

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by timofonic View Post
                      Welcome to WebMetal by Apple...
                      Oh for fscks' sake. Perhaps you all should READ THE FREAKING PROPOSAL before being so damn sure you know what is being proposed?
                      Let's quote Apple's ACTUAL words, not your paranoid fantasies:

                      "We anticipated the situation of next-generation graphics APIs a few years ago and started prototyping in WebKit, to validate that we could expose a very low-level GPU API to the Web, and still get worthwhile performance improvements. Our results were very encouraging, so we are sharing the prototype with the W3C Community Group. We will also start landing code in WebKit soon, so that you can try it out for yourself. We don’t expect this to become the actual API that ends up in the standard, and maybe not even the one that the Community Group decides to start with, but we think there is a lot of value in working code. Other browser engines have made their own similar prototypes. It will be exciting to collaborate with the community and come up with a great new technology for graphics.
                      "

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