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Vulkan 1.0 Released: What You Need To Know About This Cross-Platform, High-Performance Graphics API

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  • Originally posted by eidolon View Post
    I'm going to have to chalk this up to a difference of interpretation then. I don't consider the slides damning or demonstrably indicative. Perhaps I'm jaded by US politics. [...]
    I think that's possible; you appear to be reading the slides the way a lawyer would, but what I'm saying is that the vast majority of people do not read them that way, and when considering what is "reasonable" or "unreasonable", I think it's only fair to consider what a normal human understanding would be. It's not like the idea of XP/Vista support is a complete fantasy, a casual reading of the slides does give the impression it will be supported, and it's only when you switch on the legalese/politics filter in your brain that you realize otherwise.

    Keep in mind that I've already mentioned the likely possibility that the companies are being intentionally misleading, which if you are indeed jaded by politics, you know is extremely likely. In other words, they probably know full well that people will misread the slides, and thus it should come as no surprise that people are falling into this trap.

    Would you find that to be a compelling reason to support Vulkan on XP if you were in the position to make the call?
    I'd have to see the numbers to guess, as well as the effort/workhours required; on the Linux side of things, a Vulkan driver is more or less just a new userspace component, sort of like a lower-level gallium with a stable ABI. I'm not familiar with WinXP's driver architecture, but if all they have to do is add the new userspace component to the already-existing (in Nvidia's case) XP drivers, then it may end up being fairly easy.

    It really depends on the specifics of the market; we know there's more XP users than Linux users but we don't know how often these people buy new hardware, or so on, so without AMD and Nvidia's private sales data, it wouldn't be possible for me to give a precise answer to your question. My guess however is that if Nvidia is supporting XP now, they likely still have a strong incentive to support the platform, whereas AMD on the other hand, may look at their marketshare demographics, and may have already lost the XP user market long ago, and feel they will not get it back prior to those users upgrading to Win7 or later.

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    • Originally posted by azari View Post

      My guess however is that if Nvidia is supporting XP now, they likely still have a strong incentive to support the platform, whereas AMD on the other hand, may look at their marketshare demographics, and may have already lost the XP user market long ago, and feel they will not get it back prior to those users upgrading to Win7 or later.
      I suspect that support for XP has been reduced to a bare minimum or is the process of being reduced to a bare minimum (if not eliminated) by most companies.

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      • Originally posted by bridgman View Post

        Nothing to do with Vulkan readiness (the userspace driver is pretty much the same on Linux & Windows), just the fact that we happened to be in the middle of a transition from Catalyst to amdgpu hybrid at the moment the NDA lifted.
        Not sure what you mean by "failing to support half of our HW"... we're going back a bit further than NVidia, aren't we ? (SI 2011 vs Kepler 2012)
        From purely user's perspective, under Linux, picture is quite grim to the date. "A bit further than nvidia" translates into "we only support couple of APUs and GPUs under Linux". And somehow these aren't things in possession of most users around. Sure, if I've bought R9 270X less than 2 years ago, I'm so excited to learn there are neither plans to support it in AMDGPU, nor plans for Vulkan, etc. And even many newer GPUs are out of luck with unofficial support in AMDGPU at very most. Wtf, is this HW support policy BS serious? Sure, drawing line to get rid of ancient crap could make sense SOMETIMES. But if you do it every year or so, uhm, I think you'll manage to get rid of users. Sorry, but it has came to the fact most AMD GPUs to the date are just unsupported by AMDGPU, at least officially. Do you honestly think it is okay to do it like this? You see, even if I would buy e.g. GCN 1.2 thing, it means 6 months after I do, I can face yet another AMD marketing BS, telling they've released much better GCN 2.0 (or 3.0 or whatever), drawing new line, now GCN 1.2 suxx and I'm better (fuck) off to buy this one instead, because GCN 1.2 is no longer going to be supported. That's how I'm seeing AMD policy on AMDGPU and overall HW support, especially in Linux.

        Transition to AMDGPU thing is good, sure. But how it was performed, overall timings and user experience... its SNAFU, especially when it comes to Linux. And sorry, but if company creates core of standard, I think it would be very logical if this company could afford better timings, unless something is terribly fucked up. On bright side, its nice to see you're working with gamedevs. Hopefully, you'll mange to put end to nvidia-only gamedev world. Vulkan is a good chance and it would be nice if AMD would manage to take this opportunity.

        Guest in case of GPU irony is that AMD GPUs on its own are quite epic things. But AMD management is quite opposite of this. They never manage to release epic drivers. Especially for Linux. When they have groundbreaking technical advantages... they fail to leverage it somehow, e.g. Fury with HBM showing really pathetic results in Linux so from pure price to performance ratio it looks like a really bad deal, while technically it is kinda epic and competitors can't even offer anything comparable. Then AMD further crashes their reputation by unfriendly HW support timings/policies. Even more fun to learn they had e.g. Linux support for %s like a half year, but it got stuck in legal dept and overall roundtrip time and release timings were screwed, as usually. Sorry, but 6 months is a big deal. Especially when AMD cuts off "official" support every year or so.

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        • Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
          From purely user's perspective, under Linux, picture is quite grim to the date. "A bit further than nvidia" translates into "we only support couple of APUs and GPUs under Linux". And somehow these aren't things in possession of most users around. Sure, if I've bought R9 270X less than 2 years ago, I'm so excited to learn there are neither plans to support it in AMDGPU, nor plans for Vulkan, etc. And even many newer GPUs are out of luck with unofficial support in AMDGPU at very most. Wtf, is this HW support policy BS serious?
          Ahh, now I see. You're not talking about our plans, you're talking about Michael's article where he hinted that "if we only ever supported the set of chips that was enabled by default today in upstream amdgpu then we would only support VI". That has nothing to do with our actual plans.

          We have already said multiple times that we will be supporting Vulkan on all GCN parts including your R9 270X.
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          • Auggh.... Unapproved again !!!

            And again the bogus "Replies below are on the next page" message.

            Anyways, I'm not going to type the whole post again but basically you're getting all upset over some random thing you read on the internet. We plan to support Vulkan on all GCN parts including your 270X and have said that multiple times.
            Last edited by bridgman; 22 February 2016, 08:33 PM.
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            • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
              Auggh.... Unapproved again !!!

              And again the bogus "Replies below are on the next page" message.
              AFAIK the message will appear ≈½ hour later, don't be sad^^
              Last edited by Hi-Angel; 22 February 2016, 08:49 PM.

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              • Yes, but the question is WHEN!!!!! This NDA bs and legal BS don't help AMD or their users.
                I'm a patiant person but tbh come Polaris/Pascal releases I feel Polaris aint going to get a look in due to knowing it will be at leats a year before it's usable on linux let alone performs well. And this is coming from a 290x owner. We/I see the work been put into AMDGPU but again, It's a waiting game when NV has support off the bat.

                Realistically what's the time line having the up and running/fully functional driver(freesync ect) with Vulkan? 1 week? 1 Month? a year +

                If I bought a NV card tomorrow I would get G-sysnc ect + Vulkan Now!

                I feel like am ranting now, Also this is not a stab directly at you Brigman. I'm a bit peeved in that I've been looking forward to trying Vulkan with the Talos Princ. And it dont look like it will be happening for me before end of summer or even this year.

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                • Originally posted by pete910 View Post
                  I feel like am ranting now, Also this is not a stab directly at you Brigman. I'm a bit peeved in that I've been looking forward to trying Vulkan with the Talos Princ. And it dont look like it will be happening for me before end of summer or even this year.
                  Not sure why you're thinking that. We have already said that the hybrid driver with Vulkan support on Linux will be out by first Polaris launch (early summer) and that we're looking into doing an earlier release to get Vulkan into user's hands sooner.

                  The earlier release may be mostly VI focused from a testing perspective but should include support for CI and VI.

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                  • Originally posted by SystemCrasher View Post
                    if I've bought R9 270X less than 2 years ago, I'm so excited to learn there are neither plans to support it in AMDGPU, nor plans for Vulkan, etc. And even many newer GPUs are out of luck with unofficial support in AMDGPU at very most. Wtf, is this HW support policy BS serious? Sure, drawing line to get rid of ancient crap could make sense SOMETIMES. But if you do it every year or so, uhm, I think you'll manage to get rid of users. Sorry, but it has came to the fact most AMD GPUs to the date are just unsupported by AMDGPU, at least officially. Do you honestly think it is okay to do it like this?
                    There was no official announcement, but bridgman has clearly said that AMD is working on it in this thread: http://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum...635#post852635

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                    • I wasn't sure where to post it, so I replied a reply from a Dolphin developer in another Vulkan-related forum/news thread.

                      Phoronix: Thanks To Vulkan, We Should Be Seeing More 64-bit Linux Games One of the positive side effects of Vulkan is that hopefully we're going to be seeing


                      I'll put the URL if the message doesn't appear in the other forum thread. Sorry for the annoyance.

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