Vulkan 1.3.251 Released With One New Extension Worked On By Valve, Nintendo & Others

[Quackdoc]

So you're a game (engine) dev (or similar 3D rendering app) who coded something in Vulkan to not see it an issue, huh?

Core spec is pretty bloated by itself, but the optional extensions are much worse. And if you only target the core spec you're usually behind other APIs.

vulkan 1.2 is pretty fleshed out, for the majority of apps it will be fine to use. not all granted, but for many, will be, and is, perfectly fine

[Weasel]

Most actual devs just target DX12 because Windows is their main platform (outside of consoles) and they're more familiar with it to start with.

Right back at you. Do you have any references from anyone notable saying it is?

I haven't heard anyone complain that there are too many Vulkan extensions outside of randos on Phoronix.

I haven't heard of your DX12 story either. Guess we're even.

[smitty3268]

Right back at you. Do you have any references from anyone notable saying it is?

Nope, at least not at my fingertips without searching for that stuff, and I'm perfectly fine with going with my current assumptions rather than digging into it. I was genuinely curious if there was any particular reason to believe i should change my mind, but it sounds like there's not.

If you choose to believe differently, that's perfectly fine by me. I don't care.

[Weasel]

Nope, at least not at my fingertips without searching for that stuff, and I'm perfectly fine with going with my current assumptions rather than digging into it. I was genuinely curious if there was any particular reason to believe i should change my mind, but it sounds like there's not.

If you choose to believe differently, that's perfectly fine by me. I don't care.

What a surprise, same for me.

BTW, "I'm familiar with DX12" usually is said, instead, like "it would take me too long to learn Vulkan when I know DX12". That's basically a roundabout way of saying "Vulkan is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to DX12".

[Quackdoc]

That's basically a roundabout way of saying "Vulkan is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to DX12".

no it's not, 90% of users who use microsoft offices could migrate to only office in less then a couple hours, saying "I'm familiar with DX12" means "I'm familiar with DX12" there is no underlying assumption that vulkan is too large and bloated to work with it means that DX12 suits their needs and they see no (possibly immediate) benefit to swapping to vulkan which as I said, benefits are becoming less and less due to vkd3d.

[Weasel]

no it's not, 90% of users who use microsoft offices could migrate to only office in less then a couple hours, saying "I'm familiar with DX12" means "I'm familiar with DX12" there is no underlying assumption that vulkan is too large and bloated to work with it means that DX12 suits their needs and they see no (possibly immediate) benefit to swapping to vulkan which as I said, benefits are becoming less and less due to vkd3d.

Please don't compare Office users with software developers using low level APIs like DX12/Vulkan. They're not on the same level, and if you code in such low level APIs you usually have no problems adapting in the first place (if it's equal effort).

Else they'd still be using OpenGL or DX11 or even other libraries abstracting it into high level. Or heck, using a premade engine in the first place.

[Quackdoc]

Please don't compare Office users with software developers using low level APIs like DX12/Vulkan. They're not on the same level, and if you code in such low level APIs you usually have no problems adapting in the first place (if it's equal effort).

Else they'd still be using OpenGL or DX11 or even other libraries abstracting it into high level. Or heck, using a premade engine in the first place.

it's a perfect comparison, because you seem to be pretending to understand what every dev, or even a majority is thinking when they say, "im more familiar with X-thing-here". you don't, and don't pretend to, there are plenty of reasons why someone might or might not choose to do something. for instance if you have a full process using specific things, it can be simply not worth changing to something objectively better due to various factors such as downtime, relearning etc. or sometimes, there just isn't enough incentive, as I said. vulkan does offer a good chunk more benefits then Dx12 yes, but are they benefits the average windows game studio will care about, maybe, is it enough to completely change from dx12 to VK? probably not no.

and there ARE problems, significant problems, that have nothing to do with the API, yes there is a learning curve, but what about invested time into an ecosystem? how many scripts are there to simply port all your tools from dx12 to vk or vice versa, and no vkd3d/dxvk doesn't count. when going from dx12 you have to factor in the time to relearn a new API, and yes even if they are similar, it does take time. porting any existing tools and infrastructure can be very time consuming.

lets re word your dumb statement "I'm familiar with Opengl" would somehow trickle down to "API-HERE is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to OpenGL", or "I'm familiar with Vulkan" "D3D12 is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to vulkan" or how about "I'm familiar with Metal", "Vulkan/D3D12 is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to metal"

it's a stupid and narcissistic statement. don't pretend you know what everyone else is doing, at this point I doubt you know what even half or quarter of devs are thinking.

[smitty3268]

BTW, "I'm familiar with DX12" usually is said, instead, like "it would take me too long to learn Vulkan when I know DX12".

Yep, that's pretty common.

That's basically a roundabout way of saying "Vulkan is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to DX12".

Not sure how you made that leap, because no, they are quite literally not saying that.

All it means is there is no reason to waste their time when they already have a good solution for all their problems. That would be equally true even if it only took 10 minutes to learn Vulkan and port all their code to it. In reality, even if they already knew Vulkan just porting all their code to it would take quite a bit of time, and if they don't see any particular reason to do that then they aren't going to bother. Nothing to do with being "bloated".

[Weasel]

it's a perfect comparison, because you seem to be pretending to understand what every dev, or even a majority is thinking when they say, "im more familiar with X-thing-here". you don't, and don't pretend to, there are plenty of reasons why someone might or might not choose to do something. for instance if you have a full process using specific things, it can be simply not worth changing to something objectively better due to various factors such as downtime, relearning etc. or sometimes, there just isn't enough incentive, as I said. vulkan does offer a good chunk more benefits then Dx12 yes, but are they benefits the average windows game studio will care about, maybe, is it enough to completely change from dx12 to VK? probably not no.

Most good software devs have no issues learning C (if they don't already know it) for whatever reason, but many will complain about C++ because it's too bloated and complicated of features. (I'm not talking about code generation, since Vulkan is also efficient)

lets re word your dumb statement "I'm familiar with Opengl" would somehow trickle down to "API-HERE is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to OpenGL", or "I'm familiar with Vulkan" "D3D12 is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to vulkan" or how about "I'm familiar with Metal", "Vulkan/D3D12 is too large and bloated and I have to learn too much, I'll stick to metal"

it's a stupid and narcissistic statement. don't pretend you know what everyone else is doing, at this point I doubt you know what even half or quarter of devs are thinking.

Those are simpler APIs. And btw, idk what your point is, some devs hate learning DX12 because it's more complicated than, say, DX11. That's why you still see games released in DX11. Thanks for proving it once more.