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Vulkan Comes To Apple Silicon GPUs / M1 By Means Of MoltenVK 1.1.1

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  • Boland
    replied
    Originally posted by lucrus View Post
    Still, what happened ages ago does not justify Apple for their current bad behavior: as already said, they could easily support Vulkan too, because that's going to be the new open standard.
    It's completely fair to be frustrated by that, but Apple's not going to maintain graphics drivers for multiple APIs. Even OpenGL runs on top of Metal now with Apple Silicon. With Vulkan, the best you can hope for is the portability initiative... Apple have no issues with MoltenVK.. They're also throwing their weight behind WebGPU, so there's that.


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  • lucrus
    replied
    Originally posted by Boland View Post

    Not everything has to be so damn binary you know?... As I said in my original post, there's a bit more nuance to this situation than most people are suggesting.
    Touché.

    Originally posted by Boland View Post
    With regard to Khronos, it's mainly that Apple donated OpenCL hoping to evolve it to be THE GPGPU compute language... A certain Khronos member wasn't so keen on that (guess which one). After this (and the mess that was longs peak) Apple went their own way and released Metal before work even started on what became Vulkan.
    So you haven't got any links, but let's assume for a while I take your word on that. Still, what happened ages ago does not justify Apple for their current bad behavior: as already said, they could easily support Vulkan too, because that's going to be the new open standard. We (software developers) are not "guess which one" so Apple can't put the the blame on us and punish us for what "guess which one" did or didn't. No one is asking them to ditch Metal if they want to keep it, but only a bit of sportmanship: they've already lost this standards game after all, regardless of who started playing first.
    Last edited by lucrus; 14 December 2020, 06:11 AM.

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  • Boland
    replied
    Originally posted by lucrus View Post

    Yeah, sure, I deeply agree with you: poor Apple, they do their best to make the world a better place and the world is not even grateful, what a shame.

    On a serious note: have you got any links telling that story of Apple "getting shat on by Khronos"?
    Not everything has to be so damn binary you know?... As I said in my original post, there's a bit more nuance to this situation than most people are suggesting.

    With regard to Khronos, it's mainly that Apple donated OpenCL hoping to evolve it to be THE GPGPU compute language... A certain Khronos member wasn't so keen on that (guess which one). After this (and the mess that was longs peak) Apple went their own way and released Metal before work even started on what became Vulkan.

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  • lucrus
    replied
    Originally posted by Boland View Post

    After getting shat on by Khronos when they donated OpenCL and not being able to evolve it like they wanted to, I don't blame them for not wanting to go down the API by committee approach again.
    Yeah, sure, I deeply agree with you: poor Apple, they do their best to make the world a better place and the world is not even grateful, what a shame.

    On a serious note: have you got any links telling that story of Apple "getting shat on by Khronos"?

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  • Boland
    replied
    Originally posted by lucrus View Post

    No, there's nothing more than that. See the comment just before yours.
    I saw that comment. Everything I posted in my first comment still stands and was a reply to that.
    Apple have their own GPUs now, they've designed an API that works hand in hand with the features they need and want.

    After getting shat on by Khronos when they donated OpenCL and not being able to evolve it like they wanted to, I don't blame them for not wanting to go down the API by committee approach again.

    But then again, they are going down the API by committee route (WebGPU) although outside of Khronos.
    Last edited by Boland; 13 December 2020, 07:03 PM.

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  • lucrus
    replied
    Originally posted by Boland View Post
    There is a lot more nuance to this than 'Apple are just jerks'.
    No, there's nothing more than that. See the comment just before yours.

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  • duby229
    replied
    Originally posted by Boland View Post
    Image blocks, tile shaders, argument buffers etc.. None of these have a Vulkan equivalent.
    You've got to remember Metal was built with Apple's TBDR GPUs in mind, Vulkan was not.

    There is a lot more nuance to this than 'Apple are just jerks'.
    Well, as far as third party repair of Apple products they -are- jerks.... Of course that is totally unrelated to Metal though...

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  • Boland
    replied
    Image blocks, tile shaders, argument buffers etc.. None of these have a Vulkan equivalent.
    You've got to remember Metal was built with Apple's TBDR GPUs in mind, Vulkan was not.

    There is a lot more nuance to this than 'Apple are just jerks'.

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  • kuco
    replied
    Originally posted by V1tol View Post
    And knowing all this Apple has choice - add Vulkan implementation atop of Metal (and they won't because MoltenVK is already here), or throw away all their efforts, use Vulkan as base and rewrite Metal on top of it to avoid user software breakage. Does not look realistic to me
    Or just support Vulkan like all other platforms (except consoles)? It's not like your OS is only allowed to support 1 api.

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  • andrei_me
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

    One possible reason for this is that Metal came out first (in 2014), and they weren't wishing to have a graphics API that only lasts 1 year and a half...
    This, just like with USB-C, they went for their lightning cable 1 year before USB-C being launched, now they have that awkward setup with some devices with lightning meanwhile others with USB-C

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